Article Starmer declares Gaza starvation caused by Israel must be remedied (UK brewing)

[Syne]

It's always easier to ad hom someone as an antisemite rather than address their actual points. As if that somehow invalidates their claims. It doesn't.

Says the guy projecting because he's posting quotes instead of addressing arguments.
I've already, repeatedly, invalidated the claims.

[Magical Realist]

Says the guy projecting because he's posting quotes instead of addressing arguments.
I've already, repeatedly, invalidated the claims.

No you haven't. The genocidal starvation of Gazans by Israeli forces continues unchecked. Your only attempt at refuting it is some stupid conspiracy theory of antisemites consisting of the UN, NGOs, Hamas, and worldwide media sources making it all up, which you'd basically have to be a delusional psychotic to believe in. Nothing you have posted has proven it isn't happening and isn't caused by the Israeli blockade. Even your boy Trump finally acknowledges it. You can't hide from the truth forever. It will out.

[Syne]

Says the guy projecting because he's posting quotes instead of addressing arguments.
I've already, repeatedly, invalidated the claims.

No you haven't. The genocidal starvation of Gazans by Israeli forces continues unchecked. Your only attempt at refuting it is some stupid conspiracy theory of antisemites consisting of the UN, NGOs, Hamas, and worldwide media sources making it all up, which you'd basically have to be a delusional psychotic to believe in. Nothing you have posted has proven it isn't happening and isn't caused by the Israeli blockade. Even your boy Trump finally acknowledges it. You can't hide from the truth forever. It will out.

Yes I have, repeatedly. I can't help it if your poor reading comprehension can't keep up.
Trump was likely responding to the fake picture of a starving kid (which you don't have the intellectual honesty to even address).
If you're an antisemite, of course you won't see the antisemitism. You think it's all justified.

[confused2]

The basic calculation is to look at the amount of food entering Gaza [what is that figure?] and divide that figure by the number of people in Gaza.
Allow that Hamas will inevitably steal enough (or more) for their boys and divide what remains among the 'civilian' population.
Allow that some (many?) will be unable to reach distribution points and/or be unable to carry the boxes supplied by GHF.

What is the result?
Given that Hamas will be the last to go hungry this is a surefire way of recruiting for Hamas ..
What is the plan?

At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine there's a map showing Palestine in 1750 .. so 'Palestinians' have existed for at least 250 years. Syne's claim that Palestine didn't exist until 1920 is false - why make such a demonstrably false claim?

[stryder]

The basic calculation is to look at the amount of food entering Gaza [what is that figure?] and divide that figure by the number of people in Gaza.
Allow that Hamas will inevitably steal enough (or more) for their boys and divide what remains among the 'civilian' population.
Allow that some (many?) will be unable to reach distribution points and/or be unable to carry the boxes supplied by GHF.

What is the result?
Given that Hamas will be the last to go hungry this is a surefire way of recruiting for Hamas ..
What is the plan?

At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine there's a map showing Palestine in 1750 .. so 'Palestinians' have existed for at least 250 years. Syne's claim that Palestine didn't exist until 1920 is false - why make such a demonstrably false claim?

Skimming the wiki over history of Palestine opens a huge can of worms.

Seems like Israel and Palestine had been built to not get along on purpose originally. I can understand it back in a time period where armies marched, holding the land bridge between continents stopped armies amassing together (which would allowed steamrolling countries from there)

The British empire played a role at one point, and having forces there meant that anyone attempting to war would have to pass through a controlled territory which allowed putting itself in a diplomatically strong position. Obviously the history wasn't great, there were uprisings and in some respects purposefully strategised ways of keeping anyone from taking the location and holding the land bridge at the time. (By making all the occupants of the territories constantly hostile to each other, it would always cost a lot for another state to hold the location.)

The thing is when the British dropped it in 1949, changes were brewing across the world in regards to how wars were fought. The land bridge was no longer as prevalent due to greater mobility through vehicles.

In some respects it's just been left to fester ever since (with various insurrections and attacks from both Palestine/Israel sides), with the occasional UN resolution being passed.

The original two state solution was drawing a line from East to West down the middle of the territory with the intension of sticking the Jewish communities in the North and the Pallestinians in the south, with a neutral (no mans land) route from the med to Jerusalem (originally intended to be British controlled in 1949)

The problem with it of course is it means displacing all those in the "wrong" places.

[confused2]

The problem with it of course is it means displacing all those in the "wrong" places.

Israel has expanded by war and conquest leaving 2 million refugees from nowhere aka Palestine on a strip of land which is the last point before being driven into the sea. That strip of land is too valuable to be left as a prison/refugee camp. A weak fence, sacrificial goats and a slow response to incursions has (surprise!) provided the justification for what we see now. So far Hamas have played their part well - the end game remains unknown.

---

Close to the end game?

[Image: 8f31a2d7-a9d1-45d3-b328-d16cc9af672c.png.webp]

[Syne]

Allow that Hamas will inevitably steal enough (or more) for their boys and divide what remains among the 'civilian' population.

They don't just steal to feed themselves. Selling aid at inflated prices has been a source of funding for Hamas long before Oct 7th.
UN suspends aid operation after second Hamas-linked theft of supplies
Court finds Gaza aid worker guilty of diverting funds to Hamas
Amid international condemnation of Israel, one would never guess that humanitarian aid and even cash is flowing into Hamas coffers, while its rockets continue to hit Israel.

At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine there's a map showing Palestine in 1750 .. so 'Palestinians' have existed for at least 250 years. Syne's claim that Palestine didn't exist until 1920 is false - why make such a demonstrably false claim?

If you'd do more than look at the pictures...

"The region of Palestine is part of the wider region of the Levant"

Maybe you honesty don't know the difference between a geographical region and a nation. Prior to around 1922, no one identified as a Palestinian.. aside from all ethnicities that lived in the geographical region, including Jews.

After the establishment of the State of Israel during the 1948 Palestine War, the Jews of Mandatory Palestine became known as "Israeli Jews", having developed a national Jewish identity centered on a Jewish National Homeland in Palestine, derived from a political and ideological movement known as Zionism. By the mid-1950s, the term "Palestinian" has shifted to be a demonym that exclusively refers to the Arabs of former Mandatory Palestine who did not become citizens of the State of Israel, including their descendants, who had developed a distinctly Palestinian-Arab national identity.
...
During the British Mandate over Palestine, a "Palestinian" could mean any person who was born in or hailed from the region of Palestine or was a citizen of the Mandatory Palestine. The term covered all the inhabitants of the region, including people from Muslim, Christian and Jewish backgrounds, and all ethnicities, including Arabs, the Dom people, Samaritans, Druze, Bedouins and the traditional Jewish communities of Palestine, or Old Yishuv, whose ancestors were already living there prior to the onset of Zionist immigration.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_identity

So as you can see, 1922 is being generous.

Israel has expanded by war and conquest leaving 2 million refugees from nowhere aka Palestine on a strip of land which is the last point before being driven into the sea. That strip of land is too valuable to be left as a prison/refugee camp. A weak fence, sacrificial goats and a slow response to incursions has (surprise!) provided the justification for what we see now. So far Hamas have played their part well - the end game remains unknown.

Israel has only taken territory in response to being attacked. They are attacked, they drive the attack back, and they secure a buffer zone to protect them against further attack.
Palestine is only the "last point" because no other Arab/Muslim nation will accept Palestinian refugees. This is why Egypt has their border with Gaza locked down. Arab nations are afraid Gazans would destabilize their countries just as they've repeatedly done in Gaza.

Implying it's a false flag is openly antisemitic. But I've come to expect that from the historically illiterate.

[Magical Realist]

"Genocide denial is the attempt to deny or minimize the scale and severity of an instance of genocide. Denial is an integral part of genocide[1][2][3] and includes the secret planning of genocide, propaganda while the genocide is going on,[1] and destruction of evidence of mass killings.

Denial is considered a genocidal process,[4] the final stage,[1][5][6] and a catalyst or indicator of future atrocities.[7][8][9] Prominent examples include: the denial of the Armenian, Bosnian, Cambodian and Rwandan genocides, denial of the Holocaust, and denial of genocides against colonized indigenous peoples.[10]

The distinction between historical revisionism and historical negationism, including genocide denial, rests upon the techniques and motivations which are used.

Historical revisionists and negationists rewrite history in order to support an agenda, which is usually political or ideological, by using falsification and rhetorical fallacies in order to obtain their desired results. Exposure of genocide denial and revisionism surged in the early 21st century, facilitated by the propagation of conspiracy theories and hate speech on social media."--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_denial

[Syne]

You've completely skipped the step where you have to prove that it's genocide. People using the term willy-nilly doesn't make it a fact.

genocide - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

You have to prove that it is A) deliberate and B) the motive is to destroy the entire group.
I'll leave out "nation or ethnic group" because I know you don't understand the simple fact that Palestinians are neither.

Again, for the umpteenth time, where are the emaciated adults? Malnutrition isn't starvation, much less genocide. Malnutrition, and even legitimate starvation, has been happening in much of Africa for decades without anyone being accused of genocide. Show me evidence... not just hearsay from people pushing their agenda.

If you can't show actual evidence, you are pushing antisemitism (libel without evidence).

The only political agenda here is the likes of the UN, claiming to want to help feed Gaza while refusing to do so simply because they don't like Israel getting any credit in the process, via the GHF (leaving 950 truckloads of aid sitting idle inside Gaza). It's leftists who suddenly unmasked their antisemitism in the wake of Oct 7th. Leftists who want Israel to make all the concessions to end a war Hamas started.

[Magical Realist]

LOL at Syne frantically trying to find loopholes for committing genocide. "They're not a nation or ethnic group!" "Africa is starving too!" "Malnutrition isn't starvation!" They call this "kettle logic".


"Genocide is violence that targets individuals because of their membership of a group and aims at the destruction of a people.[a][1] Raphael Lemkin, who first coined the term, defined genocide as "the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence".[2] During the struggle to ratify the Genocide Convention, powerful countries restricted Lemkin's definition to exclude their own actions from being classified as genocide,[3][4] ultimately limiting it to any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".[5] While there are many scholarly definitions of genocide,[6] almost all international bodies of law officially adjudicate the crime of genocide pursuant to the Genocide Convention."---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/fil...282%29.pdf

ISRAEL’S UNFOLDING CRIME OF GENOCIDE IN GAZA

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

What is genocide? Is there a legal finding for genocide?

Genocide refers to specific actions—including killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, or
deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the destruction of the group in whole
orin part—taken with the intention of destroying, in whole orin part, the group targeted, on ethnic,
racial,religious, or national grounds. There is a plausible and credible case that Israel is committing
the crime of genocide against the Palestinian people in the occupied Gaza Strip. In their public
statements and speeches, Israeli officials have used dehumanizing language, describing Palestinians
in Gaza as “human animals.” They have also been unequivocal in the goal of maximum harm, stating
that the “emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy” using “fire of a magnitude that the enemy has
not known.” Since Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu declared “war” following the killing of an
estimated 1,400 Israelis on October 7, 2023, over 9,000 Palestinians in Gaza have been killed and
1.4 of the 2.3 million Palestinians living there have been internally displaced.

How is the United States complicit in this genocide?

The United States has been obligated, since learning of the serious risk of genocide in Gaza, to
exercise its influence on Israel to prevent the crime. Like both Palestine and Israel, the U.S. is a
signatory to the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The
Convention criminalizes not just the act of genocide, but also incitement, attempts, and complicity in
genocide. The United States is not only failing to uphold its basic international human rights
obligations to prevent genocide, but the ongoing commitment to further the Israeli military
operation, with knowledge of the genocidal intent of Israeli officials, brings it to the level of complicity.
The United States and responsible U.S. citizens, including the president, can be held responsible for
their role in furthering genocide.

U.S. and Israeli officials assert“self-defense” as a justification for the Israeli military’s
ongoing assault—why is this incompatible with international law?

There is no justification for committing genocide, including any claim of ‘self-defense’. The right of
self-defense is bound by the principles of international law and cannot be rooted in retaliation or
punitive tactics. Because of this, no government can ever engage in a genocidal campaign and
proclaim it as an act of self-defense. Further, because Gaza is an occupied territory, Israel, as the
occupying power, cannot claim the right of self-defense from an attack under the UN Charter. All
parties must comply with international law, including the prohibition against targeting civilians.

When did Israel’s unfolding genocide against the Palestinian people begin?

Since 1947, there have been multiple instances where Israel has engaged in the mass killing of
Palestinians, their mass expulsion, persecution, and the annexation of their land, causing severe
multigenerational physical and psychological harm to the Palestinian people. The first such instance is
the Palestinian Nakba, which provides critical context for understanding the foundations of the
genocidal moment we are in today.

The Nakba (meaning “the Catastrophe” in Arabic)refers to the Zionist militias’ violent campaign of
mass dispossession between 1947 and 1949,resulting in the forced displacement of 85 percent of
the Palestinian population, the destruction of 531 Palestinian towns and villages, and the expulsion of
some 750,000 Palestinians who became refugees. Palestinians fled or were forced to flee as armed
forces carried out a series of mass atrocities, including dozens of massacres, and killing an estimated
15,000 Palestinians.

Over the past 75 years, successive Israeli governments have pursued deliberate, calculated, and
overt campaigns against Palestinians for their forced expulsion, transfer and displacement,
extermination, fragmentation, arbitrary imprisonment, torture, and denial of fundamental rights.
Since October 7, 2023, Israel has escalated its 16-year closure of Gaza, indiscriminately and
repeatedly bombing civilians while cutting off access to all basic necessities, including food, water,
electricity, and medical supplies, and on October 13 ordered a forced “evacuation” of 1.1 million
Palestinians out of northern Gaza.

Is criticizing the state of Israel antisemitic? What is the difference between being
anti-Zionist and being antisemitic?

No, criticizing the actions of any government for its activities is a legitimate exercise of political
expression. This freedom of expression is particularly important at the moment as the state of Israel
attempts to commit genocide against the Palestinian people. Antisemitism pertains to the
persecution and bigotry directed at Jewish people based on culture,religion, and/or appearance.
Zionism is a nationalist political ideology that developed in the late 19th century and sought to create
a Jewish ethnostate. It gained significant popularity and traction following the genocidal horror of the
Holocaust.

One of the core tenets of Zionism, as it relates to Israel, is “a land without a people for a people
without a land.” However, this phrase embodies a fatal contradiction: an erasure of Palestinians native
to the land through the declaration that the land itself was preordained for Jewish settlers only.
There are Jewish people, both white and nonwhite, who have disagreed with the Zionist movement
since its origins.

What is the responsibility of the U.S. government and the international community?

The United States must end all military aid, as well as political, economic, and diplomatic support to
Israel until Israel comes into compliance with international law. In addition, the international
community must work to achieve the immediate end of Israel’s 16-year closure of the Gaza Strip,
Israel’s 56-year military occupation of the occupied Palestinian territory (the West Bank, including
East Jerusalem, and Gaza), and the apartheid regime Israel administers across historic Palestine. We
all must commit to human dignity and stand with Palestinians as they resist Israeli colonization,
occupation, and apartheid."