"Nothing you see is real" Donald Hofffman video

#1
Magical Realist Offline
Admit it. We all at one time or another have found ourselves bewitched by the VR headset metaphor for reality. That physical reality is really all just a simulation we are playing out in some higher unknown metareality. Donald Hoffman takes up this nagging little hunch and runs with it, unabashedly describing all physical reality as precisely that, and that it is our mind that generates the brain, and not the other way around. I have to confess there is a certain attractiveness to this worldview. But I can't exactly say why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWHYThrfRYU

"Conscious realism is described as a non-physicalist monism which holds that consciousness is the primary reality and the physical world emerges from that. The objective world consists of conscious agents and their experiences. "What exists in the objective world, independent of my perceptions, is a world of conscious agents, not a world of unconscious particles and fields. Those particles and fields are icons in the MUIs of conscious agents but are not themselves fundamental denizens of the objective world. Consciousness is fundamental."[8][3]

Perception of the physical world is a byproduct of consciousness

Together, MUI theory and Conscious Realism form the foundation for an overall theory that the physical world is not objective but is an epiphenomenon (secondary phenomenon) caused by consciousness. Hoffman has said that some form of reality may exist, but may be completely different from the reality our brains model and perceive.[9] Reality may not be made of space-time and physical objects.[3] Through supposing that consciousness is fundamental, Hoffman provides a possible solution to the hard problem of consciousness, which wrestles with the notion of why we seem to have conscious immediate experiences, and how sentient beings could arise from seemingly non-sentient matter. Hoffman argues that consciousness is more fundamental than the objects and patterns perceived by consciousness.[10][better source needed] We have conscious experiences because consciousness is posited as a fundamental aspect of reality. The problem of how sentient beings arise from seemingly non-sentient matter is also addressed because it alters the notion of non-sentient matter. Perceptions of non-sentient matter are mere byproducts of consciousness and don't necessarily reflect reality. This means the causal notion of non-sentient matter developing into sentient beings is open to question."-----
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_D._Hoffman
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#2
Syne Offline
That just an argument for the existence of God. If consciousness if primary, then why wouldn't all consciousness originate from a singular mind?
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#3
Magical Realist Offline
It basically posits a higher reality beyond the physical one where other minds are the fundamental entities---the same minds experiencing themselves as bodies in this VR. That would mean it is at least a social reality of some sort. But it doesn't necessarily entail an originating mind or God.
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#4
Syne Offline
So... just turtles all the way down?
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#5
Magical Realist Offline
If there can be a self-originating eternal mind (a God) then why not all the minds being that way?IOW, if consciousness is fundamental, then it can be neither created nor destroyed, and that would be true for all minds, not just one.
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#6
Syne Offline
So... lots of turtles?
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#7
Magical Realist Offline
(Aug 28, 2024 11:09 PM)Syne Wrote: So... lots of turtles?

Lots of turtles, but not stacked on each other. Spread horizontally thruout the landscape.
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#8
Syne Offline
No depth, no explanatory power... just turtles. Got it.
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#9
Magical Realist Offline
(Aug 29, 2024 01:04 AM)Syne Wrote: No depth, no explanatory power... just turtles. Got it.

No need to explain the eternal consciousness of multiple minds (all persons) any more than there is to explain the eternal consciousness of one mind (God). It is a given corollary of consciousness itself being fundamental.
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#10
Syne Offline
(Aug 29, 2024 01:26 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
(Aug 29, 2024 01:04 AM)Syne Wrote: No depth, no explanatory power... just turtles. Got it.

No need to explain the eternal consciousness of multiple minds (all persons) any more than there is to explain the eternal consciousness of one mind (God). It is a given corollary of consciousness itself being fundamental.

Ah, but there is a need to explain a single originating mind. This is why we have so many attempts at an ontological argument.
Saying "it just is" is no more edifying than "because I said so."
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