Jokes, memes, and cartoons

[Magical Realist]

Do you think socialist ideals that can only exist due to the global capitalist market (or are dirty poor) are actual examples of socialism? If so, they are either in poverty or leeches on a superior system.

Changing the goalposts now. You said non-statist socialism couldn't exist in the real world and I just proved it does..Whether you agree or not with its revenue sources is irrelevant.. It is non-statist in essence and yet totally exists.

[Syne]

Do you think socialist ideals that can only exist due to the global capitalist market (or are dirty poor) are actual examples of socialism? If so, they are either in poverty or leeches on a superior system.

Changing the goalposts now. You said non-statist socialism couldn't exist in the real world and I just proved it does..Whether you agree or not with its revenue sources is irrelevant.. It is non-statist in essence and yet totally exists.

I said, "all socialism resorts to statism." Systems that leech off of capitalism for their survival and existence are not purely socialist, and ones that subsist in poverty don't achieve the goals of socialism... with its promise to eliminate poverty through equitable distribution.

If you what to believe that socialism can exist without a capitalist free market to support it, or in poverty, that on you. But it's a weak argument. Either it isn't actually true socialism, it exists in poverty, or it becomes statist.

[Magical Realist]

I said, "all socialism resorts to statism." Systems that leech off of capitalism for their survival and existence are not purely socialist, and ones that subsist in poverty don't achieve the goals of socialism... with its promise to eliminate poverty through equitable distribution

Regardless of revenue, all 5 of the above given examples are real world instances of non-statist socialism. In no way do they resort to statism. You've lost again dumbass.

[Syne]

I said, "all socialism resorts to statism." Systems that leech off of capitalism for their survival and existence are not purely socialist, and ones that subsist in poverty don't achieve the goals of socialism... with its promise to eliminate poverty through equitable distribution

Regardless of revenue, all 5 of the above given examples are real world instances of non-statist socialism. In no way do they resort to statism. You've lost again dumbass.

Two did not even last five years. Those are failed experiments, at best, like short-live communes.
Two owe their entire existences directly to capitalism, without which they would never exist at all.
One exists in poverty. Granted, without statism or support from a capitalist system, that is the natural end-state of socialism... as redistribution and lack of ownership increasingly disincentivizes productivity. This is the only example I would admit is true socialism. Ah, remarkable socialism.

[Magical Realist]

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[Syne]

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[Magical Realist]

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[Syne]

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[Magical Realist]

Communism, not statism, is clearly impossible in a world taken over by capitalism. If you started over again fresh, based on an agrarian barter system, it might actually work. Think Middle Earth before Sauron took over. Or even the early Christian communities:

"In Acts 2:44–45, we read that the first Christians “had all things in common” and “sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need.” This was not a temporary arrangement but the normative practice of the early church, repeated again in Acts 4:32–35. The first Christians understood that following Jesus meant rejecting private property and creating new economic relationships based on meeting everyone’s needs."--- https://andrewspringer.medium.com/the-ca...d41e19ab4c

[Syne]

Socialism/communism can work... for very small groups... mostly extended families.
But even the Amish communities who do not participate in external trade believe in private property.

There are highly conservative Amish sub-groups—such as the Swartzentruber Amish and some communities in Somerset County, Pennsylvania—that avoid commercializing their culture and do not operate retail businesses for the public. Instead of relying on tourism, they largely sustain themselves through subsistence farming, basic dairy production, and local trade within their own congregations.

Amish communities are neither socialist nor communist; they are deeply capitalist but governed by a strict, voluntary religious code of mutual aid. While they share resources heavily, they maintain private property, run private businesses, and operate entirely outside of state-enforced economic systems.
- gemini

Nor did the church in Acts forego private property.

The entire church did not sell all of their possessions. While the Book of Acts describes a community of radical generosity where "they had everything in common," a closer look at the historical context and the original Greek text reveals that private property was never abolished, nor was liquidation mandatory.

This was not a formal legal system or compulsory rule required for membership. As Peter later points out in Acts 5:4, individuals completely owned their property until they chose to sell it. The sharing was a spontaneous, love-driven response to local poverty, rather than a forced economic policy.
- gemini

So private property is the natural system for the Amish and early church, both unaffected by global capitalism.

Communism, as a society-wide and enforced system, has only ever existed in opposition to preexisting capitalism.