Did Gaga Goof?

[Syne]

Male/female behavioral differences are universal in infants and toddlers, just as it is in monkeys. Males prefer things and females prefer people. If that changes, it's due to nurturing, not nature.

[Magical Realist]

Transgender kids tend to be interested in the toys and clothes that are also typically interesting to the gender they identify with.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/...pcBTrBm0Yf

[Zinjanthropos]

You don't think acting masculine and feminine comes from the brain? I mean even since our school days we are all familiar with masculine acting females and feminine acting males. Tomboys and fairies I believe they were called. And usually these mannerisms were linked to homosexual orientations. So why wouldn't one's gender identity also come from the brain? Of course its all due to it. How can it not be? The social stigma and duress from identifying with your opposite DNA gender the rest of your whole life cannot possibly be anything anyone would just opt for for the hell of it. It is all based on the brain. It's something they feel compelled to do and only feel natural doing. Forcing them to be otherwise only results in depression and often suicide:

https://www.science.org/content/article/...dy-reports

Are you saying the brain is 100% reliable in these cases? No mistakes possible? No manipulation, interference, or outside factors that might distort the truth is possible when a person’s brain makes the gender choice? Not to mention stressed. Let’s just say I’m skeptical about 100% consistency in these matters.

[Syne]

Transgender kids tend to be interested in the toys and clothes that are also typically interesting to the gender they identify with.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/...pcBTrBm0Yf

I didn't say kids. I specifically said "infants and toddlers." Because beyond that point, they are definitely more susceptible to nurturing that can counteract their innate nature.

And while they say they interviewed ages 3 to 12, they don't tell the prevalence nor the specific ages. They just leave it as "children," which is a very broad range.
Typically when study results are reported on so vaguely, the actual details don't support the claims being made.

But go ahead, show us the study. It's not linked or named in the article.

---

Are you saying the brain is 100% reliable in these cases? No mistakes possible? No manipulation, interference, or outside factors that might distort the truth is possible when a person’s brain makes the gender choice? Not to mention stressed. Let’s just say I’m skeptical about 100% consistency in these matters.

If that were the case, it would be very hard to explain the sudden explosion of transgender identification. I mean, did genetics suddenly take a hard left?

[Zinjanthropos]

Are you saying the brain is 100% reliable in these cases? No mistakes possible? No manipulation, interference, or outside factors that might distort the truth is possible when a person’s brain makes the gender choice? Not to mention stressed. Let’s just say I’m skeptical about 100% consistency in these matters.

If that were the case, it would be very hard to explain the sudden explosion of transgender identification. I mean, did genetics suddenly take a hard left?

The trans movement is absolutely dependent on science. For one thing, no one’s adding or subtracting body parts without it. I cannot see science saying the brain is 100% infallible no matter how many studies, good, bad or indifferent are conducted. Cherry picked science means ignored science.

[Syne]

Considering people can be convinced that mass illegal immigration is good or that it's honorable to be a suicide bomber, there is abundant evidence that people are susceptible to all kinds of bad things, including being transgender and it's comorbidities of mental illness, drug abuse, suicidality, etc..

[Magical Realist]

But go ahead, show us the study. It's not linked or named in the article.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1909367116

If that were the case, it would be very hard to explain the sudden explosion of transgender identification. I mean, did genetics suddenly take a hard left?

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/20...in-5-years

"Jody Herman, the paper’s lead author, told Spectrum News there are several reasons for the jump in the youth transgender population estimate, including that the CDC’s Youth Risk Behavior Survey began asking high school students in 2017 if they are transgender, giving researchers a clearer picture.

Herman, a senior scholar of public policy, said other factors likely include shifting populations, greater awareness and education about trans people and gender identities, and increased social media that allows young people to connect with people they relate to.

“I think it's a combination of things,” she said. “And we should be suspect of pointing at one thing.”

[Syne]

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1909367116

As expected, they largely use that large age range of 3-12 as a group. But when they don't:

Our findings do not imply that gender socialization is unimportant in early development. To the contrary, early development appears to be the time when, for example, children learn which toys or clothing or activities are stereotyped as masculine or feminine in their culture; the children in our study seem to have learned this information by ages 3 and 4, as even our youngest transgender participants showed clearly gendered preferences. Therefore, the transgender children in our sample are showing signs of broader knowledge about gender likely gained through living in their society

They demonstrate that nurture is an important factor in the youngest...while still beyond the age of infant and toddler, where innate nature prevails without "socialization" and learned behaviors.

Herman, a senior scholar of public policy, said other factors likely include... greater awareness and education about trans people and gender identities, and increased social media...

Yep, propaganda and peer pressure.

[Magical Realist]

children learn which toys or clothing or activities are stereotyped as masculine or feminine in their culture

Doesn't account for the persisting preference transgender children have for toys stereotyped to be for their opposite assigned gender. We probably all learn very early that dolls are for girls and trucks are for boys. What is not learned is the desire to play with the toy that matches our gender identity. The study clearly establishes this to be true for transgender kids as well. The fact that their toy and clothes preference even defies the stereotyping of the toy or clothes for their assigned gender shows how innate and non-socially influenced their gender identity is.

[Syne]

Nope. As I said before, infants and toddler show innate preferences, with male preferring things, like trucks, and females preferring people, like dolls. This even occurs in monkeys. So obviously what is learned is to go against that natural preference. The study even said it:

Therefore, the transgender children in our sample are showing signs of broader knowledge about gender likely gained through living in their society

"showing knowledge they gained in society" literally means not innate.