Israel-Gaza War (and Iranian Distractions)

[RainbowUnicorn]

Gaza Ground invasion has begun

[Syne]

Everyone whose seen the available evidence agrees, with "high confidence," that the Gaza hospital was hit with a Gaza rocket. Don't play the NewsGuard game of pretending that various erroneous news coverage equal uncertainty.

And no one would assume everyone at a hospital, even over a Hamas stronghold, would be a defacto terrorist.

I don't pay attention to the quibbles within news, so I'm not playing any side. I just can see how it's possible (not a certainty) that an attempted removal of a terrorist (or doctor working in cahoots with Hamas) that had driven to the hospital might of caused the overall outcome when attacked. In any event it matters not who was responsible, as the outcome is that it happened and it could of been avoided if everyone wasn't hellbent on bloodshed.

How about all the available video, satellite, audio, etc. intelligence? At some point, any honest and sincere observer just has to concede the obvious facts.

There have been zero reports of Israel targeting specific individuals, as they lack the on-the-ground intelligence to identify and track them. Aside from the ridiculous notion that a doctor, or other legit hospital worker, would be a high enough priority target to warrant such attention.

Hamas are the only ones "hellbent on bloodshed." Israel is bent on self-defense. Playing neutral on such a clear cut distinction between good and evil is tacit support for evil. And bending over backwards to make up, out of whole clothe, conspiracies to justify possible Israel wrong-doing could even suggest anti-Semitic motivations.

[stryder]

How about all the available video, satellite, audio, etc. intelligence? At some point, any honest and sincere observer just has to concede the obvious facts.

There have been zero reports of Israel targeting specific individuals, as they lack the on-the-ground intelligence to identify and track them. Aside from the ridiculous notion that a doctor, or other legit hospital worker, would be a high enough priority target to warrant such attention.

Hamas are the only ones "hellbent on bloodshed." Israel is bent on self-defense. Playing neutral on such a clear cut distinction between good and evil is tacit support for evil. And bending over backwards to make up, out of whole clothe, conspiracies to justify possible Israel wrong-doing could even suggest anti-Semitic motivations.

Israel holds guilt for attacks against standard civilians who get caught in the crossfire, they should be more cautious because obviously needless deaths cause more hatred towards them. They are right of course to go after Hamas which isn't the Palestinian people. Both Israel and Hamas use the civilians as human shields, Hamas shielding from Israeli response (and using their deaths for propaganda) and Israel uses them to stop the neighbouring islamofacist states from attacking them (although if they go genocidal on Palestinians, they kind of remove them as a reason for not being invaded).

The point is that eventually when all the blood is spilled, it will just be back to a few decades of hostilities cooking up (So a bunch of extremists can be brainwashed into the fold) before this shit boils over again.

The long game seems to be something people are missing.

[Syne]

How about all the available video, satellite, audio, etc. intelligence? At some point, any honest and sincere observer just has to concede the obvious facts.

There have been zero reports of Israel targeting specific individuals, as they lack the on-the-ground intelligence to identify and track them. Aside from the ridiculous notion that a doctor, or other legit hospital worker, would be a high enough priority target to warrant such attention.

Hamas are the only ones "hellbent on bloodshed." Israel is bent on self-defense. Playing neutral on such a clear cut distinction between good and evil is tacit support for evil. And bending over backwards to make up, out of whole clothe, conspiracies to justify possible Israel wrong-doing could even suggest anti-Semitic motivations.

Israel holds guilt for attacks against standard civilians who get caught in the crossfire, they should be more cautious because obviously needless deaths cause more hatred towards them. They are right of course to go after Hamas which isn't the Palestinian people. Both Israel and Hamas use the civilians as human shields, Hamas shielding from Israeli response (and using their deaths for propaganda) and Israel uses them to stop the neighbouring islamofacist states from attacking them (although if they go genocidal on Palestinians, they kind of remove them as a reason for not being invaded).

The point is that eventually when all the blood is spilled, it will just be back to a few decades of hostilities cooking up (So a bunch of extremists can be brainwashed into the fold) before this shit boils over again.

The long game seems to be something people are missing.

Complete and typical anti-Semitic garbage. The only alternative to Israel giving civilians warnings, to leave an area before an attack, would be to just allow terrorists to get away with mass murder. Because Hamas intentionally hides behind civilians, as human shields, even ordering them to stay and blocking evacuation routes. Israel never attacks first. It's always retaliation. So it's the initial aggressors who are to blame for any collateral civilian casualties. Just like, in the US anyway, when someone dies during the commission of a felony. Even if you didn't directly kill them, since it happened as a result of your crime, you are guilty of murder. Any deaths that occur as a result is the wrongdoers fault. It's definitely NOT the fault of the victims trying to defend themselves.

Israel does not use human shields. That's another anti-Semitic "both sides" propaganda. The long game is either Israel's neighbors get what they want, which is straight up genocide, or Israel survives. The notion that Israel would be genocidal is anti-Semitic "both sides" propaganda. Anyone who can start a sentence with "Both Israel and Hamas" has no clue as to the actual history.

It's very clear you have been strongly influenced by establishment news, as you're parroting their talking points.

[stryder]

How about all the available video, satellite, audio, etc. intelligence? At some point, any honest and sincere observer just has to concede the obvious facts.

There have been zero reports of Israel targeting specific individuals, as they lack the on-the-ground intelligence to identify and track them. Aside from the ridiculous notion that a doctor, or other legit hospital worker, would be a high enough priority target to warrant such attention.

Hamas are the only ones "hellbent on bloodshed." Israel is bent on self-defense. Playing neutral on such a clear cut distinction between good and evil is tacit support for evil. And bending over backwards to make up, out of whole clothe, conspiracies to justify possible Israel wrong-doing could even suggest anti-Semitic motivations.

Israel holds guilt for attacks against standard civilians who get caught in the crossfire, they should be more cautious because obviously needless deaths cause more hatred towards them. They are right of course to go after Hamas which isn't the Palestinian people. Both Israel and Hamas use the civilians as human shields, Hamas shielding from Israeli response (and using their deaths for propaganda) and Israel uses them to stop the neighbouring islamofacist states from attacking them (although if they go genocidal on Palestinians, they kind of remove them as a reason for not being invaded).

The point is that eventually when all the blood is spilled, it will just be back to a few decades of hostilities cooking up (So a bunch of extremists can be brainwashed into the fold) before this shit boils over again.

The long game seems to be something people are missing.

Complete and typical anti-Semitic garbage. The only alternative to Israel giving civilians warnings, to leave an area before an attack, would be to just allow terrorists to get away with mass murder. Because Hamas intentionally hides behind civilians, as human shields, even ordering them to stay and blocking evacuation routes. Israel never attacks first. It's always retaliation. So it's the initial aggressors who are to blame for any collateral civilian casualties. Just like, in the US anyway, when someone dies during the commission of a felony. Even if you didn't directly kill them, since it happened as a result of your crime, you are guilty of murder. Any deaths that occur as a result is the wrongdoers fault. It's definitely NOT the fault of the victims trying to defend themselves.

Israel does not use human shields. That's another anti-Semitic "both sides" propaganda. The long game is either Israel's neighbors get what they want, which is straight up genocide, or Israel survives. The notion that Israel would be genocidal is anti-Semitic "both sides" propaganda. Anyone who can start a sentence with "Both Israel and Hamas" has no clue as to the actual history.

It's very clear you have been strongly influenced by establishment news, as you're parroting their talking points.

The talking point is that Religion in all it's forms has caused nothing but Humanitarian crisis since its inception. (either directly or indirectly)

It doesn't matter which religion, they are all the same in that sense. As long as there is some excuse to argue, some Casus Belli to fight, there will always be those extremists that exploit the situation for their own gains and Humanity suffers for it.

If the clock could be wound back to where it all began, removing religion would short sightedly fix the issue, however in the long run some other excuse veiled in different threads would just take it's place.

[Syne]

The talking point is that Religion in all it's forms has caused nothing but Humanitarian crisis since its inception. (either directly or indirectly)

It doesn't matter which religion, they are all the same in that sense. As long as there is some excuse to argue, some Casus Belli to fight, there will always be those extremists that exploit the situation for their own gains and Humanity suffers for it.

If the clock could be wound back to where it all began, removing religion would short sightedly fix the issue, however in the long run some other excuse veiled in different threads would just take it's place.

If you can't see any difference, in real world consequences, between religions, you're just willfully and hopelessly ignorant.

And if you think people wouldn't be racist, genocidal, desire territorial conquest, etc. without religion, again, you're naive and ignorant. Do you think Putin has a religious motive for invading Ukraine? Do you think North Korea has religious motives in its desire for South Korea? Saddam for Kuwait? Do you think Hitler had a religious motive for the Holocaust? What about the Armenian Genocide?

Do you think WWI, WWII, Korean, or Vietnamese wars happened due to religion? Modern wars that have nothing to do with religion have long surpassed ancient religious wars in terms of deaths and civilian casualties.

[Yazata]

The Israelis are again warning Gaza civilians to move to the southern end of the Gaza Strip. Reports suggest that many have heeded the warning. The problem now is providing food and water for them there. There are hundreds of thousands of them. Egypt is allowing trucks full of relief supplies to flow in. (Supposedly they are searched first to prevent arms from being smuggled in, but I'm not entirely confident how carefully and zealously that's being done.) But Gazans aren't being allowed to flee into Egypt's Sinai peninsula.

I expect that if the Israelis are fired upon as they advance into Gaza, that they will fire back at wherever they judge the fire is coming from. They might even call in artillery and air strikes to flatten buildings. That's simply how land warfare is conducted. If Hamas is firing from buildings full of civilians, it's Hamas who are putting those civilians in danger. If Hamas really wants to avoid civilian casualties, they could come out of their tunnels and defensive positions and fight the Israeli army face-to-face on open ground away from the civilians. Of course we all know they would get their butts kicked in short order if they did that. So they continue to shelter among crowds of civilians and that using the civilians is part of their strategy.

The naval fleet in the eastern Mediterranean and northern Red Sea continues to grow:

It appears to include at least 23 US ships
2 nuclear powered aircraft carriers
1 amphibious assault ship (small aircraft carrier)
2 guided missile cruisers
11 guided missile destroyers
1 command ship
2 landing ships
4 auxiliaries (supply ships & tankers)

3 French ships:
1 amphibious assault ship (small aircraft carrier)
1 guided missile destroyer
1 frigate

3 British ships:
1 guided missile destroyer
2 landing ships

2 Italian ships:
2 frigates

3 German ships:
2 frigates
1 auxiliary supply ship

2 Spanish ships:
1 frigate
1 auxiliary supply ship

2 Greek ships:
2 frigates

1 Danish ship:
1 frigate

2 Turkish ships:
2 frigates

It totals
2 nuclear powered aircraft carriers
2 assault carriers
2 guided missile cruisers
13 guided missile destroyers
11 frigates
4 landing ships
1 command ship
6 auxiliaries

[Image: F9hJnEtXMAAfwws?format=jpg&name=large]

[RainbowUnicorn]

Hamas wont stop until they are dead & they are using Palestinians as human shields.
like Nazis & isis had a love child and it is hamas

there is no perfect solution

the Palestinian people have been feeding hamas for the last 15 years & the monster has grown

[confused2]

From no particular source.. Hamas has popular support among the Palestinians. If Hamas is the Palestinians and the Palestinians are Hamas .. eliminating Hamas isn't going to be easy or pleasant - I suspect the Israelis already know that.

[Syne]

Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats, whilst the ruling Fatah received 41.43% of the vote and won 45 seats.[1]

The newly elected PLC met for the first time on 18 February 2006.[2] Incumbent Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei tendered his resignation on 26 January 2006, but remained interim Prime Minister at the request of President Mahmoud Abbas. On 20 February, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was nominated to form a new government. The new government with Haniyeh as Prime Minister was sworn in on 29 March. These were the last contested elections to be held before Hamas took over the Gaza Strip in 2007; no new elections have been held since.
...
World Public Opinion summarised the election voting drivers as follows:

The decisive victory of the militant Islamic group Hamas in last month's Palestinian legislative elections (winning 74 of 132 parliamentary seats) has raised the question of whether the Palestinian public has become aligned with Hamas' rejection of Israel's right to exist and its stated goal of creating an Islamic state covering all of historic Palestine, including what is now Israel. Hamas has come under increasing pressure to renounce its goal of eliminating Israel, but Hamas leaders have refused.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Pales...e_election

So at least at one point, Hamas did have pretty broad Palestinian approval.

The civilians are either complicit and their blood is on their own heads, or they are captives of Hamas and on Hamas' heads. Either way, no blood is on the head of Israel, for simply trying to decisively end overtly genocidal violence.