Israel-Gaza War (and Iranian Distractions)

[Yazata]

Reports coming in that the Israelis are evacuating several of their embassies around the Middle East. These are known to include Jordan, Morocco and Turkey. My guess is that the Israeli army plans to enter Gaza soon and that Israel expects riots across the region.

[Yazata]

US navy photograph of the USS Carney firing surface to air missiles at the cruise missiles and drones it shot down over the Red Sea.

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[Yazata]

France has announced that the FS Tonnerre, a Mistral class amphibious assault ship (essentially a small aircraft carrier for helicopters) is being sent to the eastern Mediterranean to join the fleet there. The French navy has three of these Mistrals. Two more were built for Russia, but sanctions prevented their delivery. Russia was eventually reimbursed their purchase price and the two ships were sold to Egypt instead.

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Reports are coming in that the Israeli war cabinet has agreed on a time for the start of the Gaza operation. It might be coming soon, given that the Israeli PM and a military spokesman have a nationwide TV address scheduled today.

Intense bombing continues in parts of Gaza. Reports that a senior Hamas commander was killed in one of the raids. Interesting reports that the Israeli air force has been attacking one spot repeatedly, over and over. There seems to be some kind of priority target in that spot that's hard to kill. I wonder if perhaps there's an underground command bunker there.

Hamas is still firing rockets into Israel. One would think that they would have run out by now, but they keep going.

There's quite a bit of shooting across the northern border with Hezbollah, but not full-scale warfare (yet).

[Yazata]

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that their sources ("US and Israeli officials") are telling them that Israel has agreed to hold off attacking Gaza until the US moves more forces into the area. This includes at least 12 air defense missile batteries to be placed not only in Israel but also in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Iraq, all of which seemingly fear that Iran will go on the warpath if Israel attacks.

[RainbowUnicorn]

i wonder how many hamas terrorists are in the tunnels waiting
i would be tempted to get a big smoke machine and stick it into one of the tunnels to see if it shows up the other doors.
just pumping heat into a tunnel at night time and watching on thermals might show up other doors/tunnel networks

[Yazata]

I agree RU, smoke'em out with smoke or tear gas in the tunnels.

The Israelis say that Hamas' command center is located in a tunnel and bunker complex directly underneath Al Shifa hospital, the largest hospital in Gaza. (This is a different larger hospital than the one the Israelis supposedly bombed the other day.) Reportedly Hamas has been encouraging Gaza civilians to shelter at the hospital, claiming that the Israelis wouldn't dare bomb it. So there are thousands of human-shields on top of the Hamas headquarters.

In other news, for the last few days the Israeli army has been penetrating into Gaza in probing attacks, then pulling back again. Tonight it's happening again on a larger scale and there are rumors that they are going in to stay this time. There's no official confirmation of that though. Iranian news outlets are claiming that American Delta Force operators are accompanying the Israelis, but that appears to be false.

Meanhile Iranian-supplied militias in Syria and Iraq have fired rockets at US bases and encampments about 20 times in the last few days, causing a number of American wounded (none very serious apparently and most returned to duty after first-aid attention). So today US jets bombed several of the militia camps.

[stryder]

I agree RU, smoke'em out with smoke or tear gas in the tunnels.

The Israelis say that Hamas' command center is located in a tunnel and bunker complex directly underneath Al Shifa hospital, the largest hospital in Gaza. (This is a different larger hospital than the one the Israelis supposedly bombed the other day.) Reportedly Hamas has been encouraging Gaza civilians to shelter at the hospital, claiming that the Israelis wouldn't dare bomb the hospital. So there are thousands of human-shields on top of the Hamas headquarters.

In other news, for the last few days the Israeli army has been penetrating into Gaza in probing attacks, then pulling back again. Tonight it's happening again on a larger scale and there are rumors that they are going in to stay this time. There's no official confirmation of that though. Iranian news outlets are claiming that American Delta Force operators are accompanying the Israelis, but that appears to be false.

Meanhile Iranian-supplied militias in Syria and Iraq have fired rockets at US bases and encampments about 20 times in the last few days, causing a number of American wounded (none very serious apparently and most returned to duty after first-aid attention). So today US jets bombed several of the militia camps.

It depends on the complexity of the tunnel system. If it anything like Derinkuyu city (wikipedia.org) then the tunnels are existant at multiple layers, which means penetrating the upper ones doesn't necessarily mean penetrating lower levels. However there would still need to be shafts (wells) for air ventillation and water.

One of the things that should be considered in regards to Iraeli strikes such as the alleged (since no one is sure who did it) incident involving the hospital is that Hamas was/is holding hostages and had doctors and medical staff available to deal with them, which suggest they likely pulled doctors from surrounding hospitals to fulfil the role of keeping people alive.

It's a problem for doctors that might have taken a hippocratic oath where they are obligued to treat people no matter which side of a conflict they reside. However it means if they were tracked in some way (such as their smart phones) they would be been seen in both a Hamas stronghold as well as arriving at a hospital, which could of got their electronic devices flagged as terrorists.

[Syne]

Everyone whose seen the available evidence agrees, with "high confidence," that the Gaza hospital was hit with a Gaza rocket. Don't play the NewsGuard game of pretending that various erroneous news coverage equal uncertainty.

And no one would assume everyone at a hospital, even over a Hamas stronghold, would be a defacto terrorist.

[stryder]

Everyone whose seen the available evidence agrees, with "high confidence," that the Gaza hospital was hit with a Gaza rocket. Don't play the NewsGuard game of pretending that various erroneous news coverage equal uncertainty.

And no one would assume everyone at a hospital, even over a Hamas stronghold, would be a defacto terrorist.

I don't pay attention to the quibbles within news, so I'm not playing any side. I just can see how it's possible (not a certainty) that an attempted removal of a terrorist (or doctor working in cahoots with Hamas) that had driven to the hospital might of caused the overall outcome when attacked. In any event it matters not who was responsible, as the outcome is that it happened and it could of been avoided if everyone wasn't hellbent on bloodshed.

[Yazata]

It depends on the complexity of the tunnel system. If it anything like Derinkuyu city (wikipedia.org) then the tunnels are existant at multiple layers, which means penetrating the upper ones doesn't necessarily mean penetrating lower levels. However there would still need to be shafts (wells) for air ventillation and water.

Yeah, the Israelis' press briefing had drawings and graphics of the Hamas tunnel complex under the hospital. It had multiple levels and looked to my non-expert eye to be very complex and sophisticated.

Perhaps the best thing might be to try to discover all the entrances and exits and then starve them out. RU's gas idea might be a useful tactic too.

But I gather that the entrances and exits aren't just in the hospital above. There's a network of tunnels under much of Gaza and the headquarters probably has underground connections to many locations.

One of the things that should be considered in regards to Iraeli strikes such as the alleged (since no one is sure who did it) incident involving the hospital is that Hamas was/is holding hostages and had doctors and medical staff available to deal with them, which suggest they likely pulled doctors from surrounding hospitals to fulfil the role of keeping people alive.

From what I can gather, nobody is sure where the hostages are. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are under the hospital.