Extra-dimensional God? I believe so.

#1
Ostronomos Offline
The most promising theory for a theory of everything is string theory, which requires six extra real spatial dimensions to be curled up so tightly that we cannot detect them.

One of the hurdles to having string theory hailed as the all-encompassing theory of everything is that despite its success, with regard to the six extra dimensions we do not see the impact of them.

Recall that the extra dimensions contain the separation, effecting the non-separation.

Thus it becomes clear that in our 11-dimensional universe, there is another level of reality where mind and the so-called external world meet.

In spite of atheistic convictions, there is a God. I know this for a fact. But trying to convince others of this has been a bit of a struggle. Despite having successfully proved it in my "higher level intellect".

There are many examples of the blind leading the blind. And atheism is one of them. This I know for a 100% fact. My knowledge of truth cannot be swayed. I've seen the best arguments in existence from all sides.
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#2
Magical Realist Online
Quote:But trying to convince others of this has been a bit of a struggle

The problem becomes why it is a struggle to convince people God exists. I mean really. There's no struggle believing real things exist. Trees, rocks, clouds, and stars. They're real because they are self-evident. But there apparently is a struggle to believe God exists. It's a very simple proposition in the end: "If God exists, show me he exists. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. Then explain why he doesn't show himself to be existent."
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#4
Syne Offline
(Sep 22, 2023 10:12 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: ...Then explain why he doesn't show himself to be existent."

It's been explained to you before. Aside from outright delusion, you have no choice in accepting the existence of things like "Trees, rocks, clouds, and stars." God facilitates freewill by allowing belief to be truly free. If God incontrovertibly showed itself, only the mentally ill could deny it.

Or consider, until around 450 B.C., people didn't know what those twinkling lights in the night sky really were. So it's clearly possible to know a thing exists while having no clue as to its true nature. In which case, you have no idea if you are seeing evidence of God every day.
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#5
Zinjanthropos Offline
Personally I don’t care about religious belief so believe what you want. Be nice if people stopped there. Unfortunately proselytizing is a human right according to UN. Seems should be the other way around. Don’t need some belligerent religious folk forcing it on any of us IMO.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytism

EXCERPT:
Quote: The right to change religion and to manifest religion is protected under Article 18 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights.[14] Limitations and regulations on proselytism are considered by some as infringements on freedom of religion and freedom of speech.[15]

I guess I’m free to proselytize but don’t force it. Try and figure out why people do it and the only thing I can think of is that they have concern for my welfare. Or be a bit self praising like Ostro and declare yourself a great thinker because of a belief, no actual facts, evidence, proof etc. I don’t think he has my welfare at heart so I’ll go with the latter.

Maybe UN should declare atheism a religion, make it a free for all battle of beliefs/philosophy.
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#6
Syne Offline
Atheists already proselytize...every time a religious person speaks about their beliefs. They can't seem to help themselves. Even if the religious person isn't proselytizing or preaching.
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#7
Magical Realist Online
Quote:God facilitates freewill by allowing belief to be truly free. If God incontrovertibly showed itself, only the mentally ill could deny it.

There is only freedom in believing in things that are true. If it is true that God exists, then it would only be freeing to us to know that. Facts are facts. You can't make a sound decision by having facts hidden from you. There is no freedom of choice in being deceived into doubting God exists by God himself hiding from us. There would only be free choice to know God exists. Then you can choose to serve him or not. Of course God doesn't really exist, so all this is hypothetical.
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#8
Syne Offline
(Sep 23, 2023 10:52 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:God facilitates freewill by allowing belief to be truly free. If God incontrovertibly showed itself, only the mentally ill could deny it.

There is only freedom in believing in things that are true. If it is true that God exists, then it would only be freeing to us to know that. Facts are facts. You can't make a sound decision by having facts hidden from you. There is no freedom of choice in being deceived into doubting God exists by God himself hiding from us. There would only be free choice to know God exists. Then you can choose to serve him or not. Of course God doesn't really exist, so all this is hypothetical.

That's demonstrably false. Freedom obviously includes believing untrue things. In your previous example of the stars, that would mean that prior to about 450 B.C. people couldn't believe that twinkling lights existed in the night sky. Because they obviously didn't know the truth about them. So this is obviously false. You can believe that what you see exists and are holes on dome of the sky, whether you understand the truth or not. If you can only believe what is true, you have to know for certain what is true, and you have no other options in what you can believe. The opposite of freedom.

You trying to conflate making "sound decisions" is completely irrelevant. Being able to make sound decisions has nothing to do with what you can and cannot believe, nor your freedom of thought. Everyone has to make decisions based on incomplete knowledge, all the time, because no human is omniscient. A God that doesn't readily reveal itself is not more deceptive than nature not immediately exposing it's underlying workings. Do you think nature is lying to you? Or, like most rational people, do you think nature is just too complex to readily know everything about?

Do you think you lack choice when a person lies to you? Do you think you must believe them and base your decisions upon what they tell you? If so, you're woefully naive. Or, like most adults, do you believe that you have your whole lifetime of experience with which to evaluate the veracity of any statement?

If you knew, for a fact, there was a God, and knew the consequences of not following that God, you'd have to either be mentally deficient or mentally ill (one of which you've already repeatedly admitted to) not to do so. Following your obviously flawed reasoning, that would mean that only the mentally ill or deficient could be free. That sounds like a cope coming from you.
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#9
Magical Realist Online
Quote:If you knew, for a fact, there was a God, and knew the consequences of not following that God, you'd have to either be mentally deficient or mentally ill (one of which you've already repeatedly admitted to) not to do so.

Right..so I'd have the choice to serve him or not. Perhaps I have no desire to serve a totalitarian prick. Whatever the case, I base my choice in the facts of the actual situation, not some delusion of there being no God at all. By hiding from us, God would essentially be biasing our choice towards atheism. And that would be unjust. Do I wanna believe in such a God? No. I opt for the free alternative of no tyrant being in charge of this chaotic universe, a universe where I am basically free to make my own choices, erroneous or not, and not coerced by a God and his divine will to either enslave my life or punish me in hell.
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#10
Syne Offline
(Sep 24, 2023 12:29 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:If you knew, for a fact, there was a God, and knew the consequences of not following that God, you'd have to either be mentally deficient or mentally ill (one of which you've already repeatedly admitted to) not to do so.

Right..so I'd have the choice to serve him or not. Perhaps I have no desire to serve a totalitarian prick. Whatever the case, I base my choice in the facts of the actual situation, not some delusion of there being no God at all. By hiding from us, God would essentially be biasing our choice towards atheism. And that would be unjust. Do I wanna believe in such a God? No. I opt for the free alternative of no tyrant being in charge of this chaotic universe, a universe where I am basically free to make my own choices, erroneous or not, and not coerced by a God and his divine will to either enslave my life or punish me in hell.

You have the choice now, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. This is obviously true, from the simple fact that people currently make that choice, often several times throughout their lives. If you couldn't choose, you'd still be a believer, like you were raised to be. So you're own history, that you've told us, defeats your argument. Your own professed upbringing should have biased you toward believing in God, which you've admitted before that it originally did. So it's only other influences that have biased you toward atheism, agnosticism, etc.. Your default bias was to believe. It could even be argued that every child's default bias is to believe in the fantastical.

The only thing that would make a God totalitarian is removing your choice, which is exactly what removing all doubt would do...again, unless you're mentally deficient or ill.

The fact that you can even ask the question "Do I wanna believe in such a God?" proves that you have that choice. But it's obvious you're attributing to God characteristics you'd reject, even though you claim there's nothing there to attribute characteristics to in the first place. Completely incoherent.
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