UFO/UAP Thread

[Magical Realist]

A convenient compilation of information we have on UAPs as to their behavior and appearance as stated by prominent govt and intelligence officials , military personnel, official government reports, and credible eyewitnesses:

https://www.uap.guide/

[Magical Realist]

British astronomer's 30 year old theory on and research into what UAPs are. Intriguing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBmd2TeUstw

[Yazata]

NASA has announced a public meeting of their Independent Study Team on Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena on May 31 at 10:30 AM EDT. It will be followed by a media teleconference. Both should be streamed on NASA-live.

They say:

"NASA defines UAP as observations of events in the sky that cannot be identified as aircraft or known natural phenomena from a scientific perspective. The focus of this public meeting is to hold final deliberations before the agency's independent study team publishes a report this summer.

Outlining how to evaluate and study UAP by using data, technology, and the tools of science is a NASA priority. It is not a review or assessment of previous unidentifiable observations. The report will inform NASA on what possible data could be collected in the future to shed light on the nature and origin of UAP."

So the emphasis here isn't examining and forming conclusions about individual UAP cases. The focus is on how to scientifically study UAP phenomena and how to gather scientifically useful data about them.

https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1657121976308191248

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-...na-meeting

[Yazata]

OMG!!! Holy Crap!!

MR! Make sure you are sitting down and holding tight when you watch this video! CC is probably going to have to be hospitalized in ICU for Grusch Mind Virus!

Poor JamesR's head is going to explode!

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/KQ7Dw-739VY

Wow! The Congressional hearing was much more interesting and informative than I expected. I encourage everyone to watch the video of it. (Talk about pouring gasoline on conspiracy theories!!)

Here's some things that caught my attention in no particular order (my comments are in parentheses):

A Congressman said that AARO has told them they have 171 "uncharacterized" cases that displayed "unusual" flight performance characteristics.

Graves said that all UAP video is classified secret or above. (Seemingly explaining the military's refusal to release any video in response to FOIA requests.)

Grusch seemed to me to be more credible and authoritative than I expected. He's a former military intelligence officer who went on to become a high-ranking official at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, in charge of handling UAP phenomena for that agency. He says that multiple individuals came to him and told him very specific information about recovered alien vehicles and what he termed "biologics" that were recovered as well. Including information on where the work was being conducted and by whom. When he tried to inquire further in intelligence community circles about these reports, he was denied further information. He spoke darkly about threats including death threats which he didn't want to get into, but which he told Congress that he's willing to discuss in closed session in the SCIF.

Fravor said that some of these UAPs appeared to him and others to use "active jamming" of radar and other sensor frequencies. And the radar tapes of his encounter disappeared into a black hole of secrecy.

Graves said that sightings of UAPs is quite common in the military, primarily off both coasts in military operating areas, and they continue today. Aircraft flying to and from Hawaii see them. He estimated that 95% of the UAPs seen are never formally reported, for fear of career damage. Some airlines have apparently ordered their pilots not to report them. But pilots talk among themselves.

Graves said that the UAP he saw and the morphology most common on the east coast was grey cubes inside transparent spheres, with the corners of the cube apparently contacting the sphere. He spoke of one stationing itself where jets entered and left a training area off Virginia Beach, where one jet flew past it about 50 feet away. (Very close in aircraft terms.) After that close encounter, training was halted for the day for safety reasons.

When asked what kind of aerodynamic behavior they found anomalous, Graves and Fravor said the ability to station-keep motionless above a single spot even in high wind, the ability to ascend and descend between space to sea level in seconds, the ability to accelerate from motionless to mach instantaneously, and the ability to make sharp right angle turns. They said that no exhaust or heat signature were observed. Both Fravor and Graves agreed that this observed behavior is far in advance of the known aeronautical engineering state of the art in the US or any other country.

Graves described a previously unknown (to outsiders) UAP incident at (then) Vandenberg Air Force Base (it's Space Force Base now) in California (I didn't catch the date, but it's in the video) where multiple military and civilian contractors saw a large red cubical object flying in a seemingly purposeful manner from point to point over the base.

The members of Congress described another incident of their own in which an aircraft from Eglin Air Force Base saw what was described as four objects flying in diamond formation. Radar also detected them. When members of Congress visited the base and asked to see the radar recordings and speak to the pilot, they were initially denied access. They were later given access to the pilot who told them that when his jet approached the objects, all the sensors on his aircraft simultaneously quit.

The members of Congress showed considerable interest in the existence of programs that are "above" Congressional oversight about which Congress is never informed. If the Constitutional branches of government isn't in charge of them, who is? The answer from Grusch was "top senior executives" both inside and outside the government. (The "deep state".) When asked who pays for them if they never appear in Congressional appropriations, Grusch's answer was a combination of fraud (money appropriated for one thing being diverted to something different) and what he termed IRAD (independent R&D privately funded by contractors).

Grusch stated that some National Geospatial Intelligence Agency satellite data contains UAP information. When asked for details, he said he could only discuss it in closed session in the SCIF. A member of Congress said that the intelligence people have so far refused to release any satellite UAP data.

Grusch says that several of his sources have spoken to AARO, but seemed to be ignored. Members of Congress wondered if Sean Kirkpatrick's testimony to them had been truthful.

Assuming that the US really has extraterrestrial artifacts etc, Grusch was asked how long the US has known about this. Grusch says that as far as he knows, since the 1930's.

Members of Congress asked about whether anyone had been killed. There was some confusion about whether the question was about killed by the deep-state for talking, or killed by UAPs. Grusch hinted about fatalities among technicians investigating extraterrestrial tech, apparently not as the result of hostile action but rather the result of accidents with unknown tech. But again he would only provide details in closed session in the SCIF.

When asked what kind of information a proper UAP investigation needs, Graves said good reliable data on 1. kinematics (movements, velocities, accelerations) and 2. interactions (both among themselves, with aircraft and with things on the ground.

The question was asked, if Congress wants more information, where should they go? Grusch's answer was they won't tell you anything unless you ask directly and specifically. Then they will say it's classified and stone-wall you. Grusch said he's willing to tell them who to talk to, but only in closed session in the SCIF.

Recently declasssified classified annexes to the 1970's Nuclear Arms Treaty between the US and Soviet Union had specific provisions for UFOs and codes to be used for them. When asked if the codes had ever been used in practice, it seems there was another refusal to divulge.

I can't say for a moment that I believe all of this. But it's possible and it definitely needs to be followed up on. The members of Congress spoke about organizing the closed classified session in the SCIF and about the possibility of legislation resulting from this information.

Given that Grusch was the star of the morning, and much of what he said was total bombshells, I expect a full-pressure attempt at character assassination to begin immediately, not only by Mick and his crowd, but from the deep-state spooks as well. That being said, today is probably going to go down in history as an epochal day in UFOlogy.

And I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by how well the hearing went. Members of Congress from both parties were collegial, bipartisan and professional, asking very good questions. It seems that everyone, left, right and middle is interested in this subject.

[confused2]

.. the ability to accelerate from motionless to mach instantaneously, and the ability to make sharp right angle turns..

An account from 1958 . [ https://www.scivillage.com/thread-10419-...l#pid44033 ]

Above a city in Hungary (probably Budapest) in about 1958 he saw a number of balls of light in the sky. The balls of light moved from point to point in the sky 'instantaneously'..

IMO the accounts are too similar to be the result of chance. The 1958 account predates any technology that might account for a mistaken identification.

We are not alone in the Universe?

[Yazata]

Black Triangle UFOs/UAPs:

https://www.sandboxx.us/news/airpower/wh...angle-ufo/

More on a particular sorta legendary/mythical US "black" special access program called the TR-3A

https://www.sandboxx.us/news/airpower/ex...ert-storm/

And lots of crazy stuff about a rumored follow-on to the TR-3A that some are calling the TR-3B that some are claiming incorporates reverse engineered alien tech. (Admittedly, some of this one is X-Files stuff.)

https://www.sandboxx.us/news/airpower/tr...eered-ufo/

More about Grusch and his claims

https://www.sandboxx.us/news/airpower/ev...pacecraft/

[Yazata]

Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna announced just a couple of hours ago that the Congressional Subcommittee that held the hearing in the posts above has finally been granted access to the SCIF (secure compartmentalized intelligence facility) so that they can question Grusch about the information he says he has that he says is highly classified.

https://twitter.com/realannapaulina/stat...7757028559

[C C]

Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna announced just a couple of hours ago that the Congressional Subcommittee that held the hearing in the posts above has finally been granted access to the SCIF (secure compartmentalized intelligence facility) so that they can question Grusch about the information he says he has that he says is highly classified.

https://twitter.com/realannapaulina/stat...7757028559

The irony is that Grusch's story is really all that's left. The wildest and least likely to be true UAP possibility is what remains for buffs to pin their hopes on.

The spurt of military UAP footage in this decade originally seemed interesting because many assumed it had been subjected to expert analysis over the years and withstood the scrutiny of skeptics. In reality, that just wasn't the case. Or perhaps in some instances late conclusions like "nothing is defying the laws of physics" had been around for quite a while, but withheld from the public. A few incidents could still be intriguing from an Earthly origin and ongoing national security standpoint, but it's not "beings and objects from other realms" territory.

So it's up to Grusch to hit a three-pointer from the far end of the court, with two seconds remaining in the game, to save the day. Extremely unlikely, to be the case that a government agency has spaceship wreckage and alien bodies in storage/ A discount trope right out of the most tired and juvenile conspiracies, and a '90s TV show that hasn't weathered revisits well decades later.

[Yazata]

Oh no!!! CC's been drinking JamesR's spiked coolaid! It's made her dizzy.

The irony is that Grusch's story is really all that's left.

All that's left?

The wildest and least likely to be true UAP possibility is what remains for buffs to pin their hopes on.

I see it as not prematurely closing the door on the possibility that something new and interesting might be happening. Seriously, I don't understand all the hostility to that idea.

The spurt of military UAP footage in this decade originally seemed interesting

I think that the military reports still are interesting, I don't know what's made that go away. They are interesting because many of them have multiple trained observers, along with radar and other instrumental corroboration.

because many assumed it had been subjected to expert analysis over the years and withstood the scrutiny of skeptics. In reality, that just wasn't the case.

I'm more interested in the conclusions of objective investigators who approach the subject with an open-minded agnostic attitude. The opinions of 'skeptics' (UFO 'true disbelievers') is of as little interest to me as the opinions of UFO 'true believers'. Each will do everything possible to reach their own favored predetermined conclusion.

Admittedly, too little is known about most of these military cases and about what kind of scrutiny they have already received by AARO or whover. The villain there is the military's excessive secrecy.

From the way they describe it, they do subject the reports to scrutiny even if the details of their analyses are rarely if ever released. And the fact that many of their reports remain open and unresolved suggests to me that it might be too soon to slam the door on the whole thing, even if most of these open cases remain open only because of insufficient information.

If they have hundreds of reports, and if maybe only a small percentage display what they call "anomalous characteristics" that's still dozens of these more problematic cases. How many does one need in order to say that extraordinary things happened. Seems to me that one is enough.

Or perhaps in some instances late conclusions like "nothing is defying the laws of physics" had been around for quite a while, but withheld from the public. A few incidents could still be intriguing from an Earthly origin and ongoing national security standpoint, but it's not "beings and objects from other realms" territory.

Why must 'objects from other realms' equate to 'defying the laws of physics'? Seems to me that merely 'defying the current engineering state of the art' is enough. Of course 'other realms' will have to receive a very broad interpretation. It needn't mean 'extraterrestrial', let alone 'supernatural'. It might just mean 'some unknown and unsuspected source'.

So it's up to Grusch to hit a three-pointer from the far end of the court, with two seconds remaining in the game, to save the day.

I don't think so. I think that Grusch's story is unlikely to be true, but if it was, it would be historically transformative. It would change everything. So it has to be followed up on. I'm not hanging any hopes on it though.

Whatever the result of investigating Grusch's claims, I think that the better UAP reports like Fravor's, Graves' and all the others that remain highly classified and whose details they refuse to divulge, still remain just as interesting and just as puzzling as they were before Grusch. In that sense, Grusch is just a distraction.

The argument that if Grusch is discredited then the whole current interest in UAPs will be discredited and fall apart, makes the conspiracy theorist in me wonder if Grusch is perhaps a shill, an intelligence agency plant, in hopes that discrediting his rather outlandish claims will make all the interest in the subject go away, thus keeping whatever the spooks want to hide (black projects or whatever) safe from public knowledge.

[Magical Realist]

Since we're lapsing into a skeptical amnesia regarding what has been revealed about uaps, I'll just repost this as a reminder of where we're at on this:

"Following up with conclusions reached by Sean Kirkpatrick of the AARO regarding the metallic orbs witnessed and filmed "all over the world". This to me is a monumental event that can't be overemphasized. Somewhat on the level of a full government disclosure of the existence of UFOs. Finally we have something to study rather than debunk. Bear in mind that we simply don't have the physics or aeronautical science to create these metallic orbs. Their existence and behavior seems to defy human ingenuity. So they fall in the "other bin" of mysterious and truly anomalous phenomena."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OduLj-9uTSA