What I DON'T believe re UFOs but have been made out to!

[Kornee]

Received back-handed 'flattery' via out-of-full-context selective quoting recently. Over at another forum site where I was given the boot awhile back hence cannot directly respond there. Said 'flattery' appears in p316, posts #6309, #6314, #6316 (so far) in a very recently renamed (clumsily and tendentiously imo), long running thread dealing with UFOs. The 'flatterer' was fingered correctly by myself as a forum hierarchy approved sock puppet of a member formerly known there as sweetpea.

So, what my 'flatterer' has failed to do is put my selectively quoted (thrice repeated by 'flatterer') comment, accurate per se imo as it is, within a fuller context.
The three times repeated quoted passage itself:

"Q-reeus said: ↑
I have no religious affiliation but am convinced a higher power or powers exists natively in some other realm of existence i.e. outside of our spacetime continuum. They can however invade our abode(s) at will as in e.g. UAP, Poltergeist, apparitions/'ghosts' etc. activities. Your type dismiss it all with cavalier disregard for so much good evidence. Like the Enfield case. Like the 2004 Nimitz and 2014-2015 Eisenhower carrier groups multi-spectrum synchronized encounters. And many others."

Notice I specifically wrote 'ghosts' not ghosts. Within that same long running thread, I made it crystal clear to the chief Troll there, on a number of occasions, I do not believe in ghosts as normally defined. Namely, the disembodied souls of physically deceased humans. Posts where that was clearly pointed out out were, unsurprisingly, ignored and twisted repeatedly by said chief Troll:

Here is afaik a complete list, in descending date/time order, of every post I have made in that thread, that uses the word 'ghosts' or 'ghost':
http://www.sciforums.com/search/46469745...s&o=date&c[node]=108&c[user][0]=267676
http://www.sciforums.com/search/46469745...s&o=date&c[node]=108&c[user][0]=267676

A challenge to both the chief Troll and his forum hierarchy approved sockpuppet faithful supporter. Quote just one post there where it can FAIRLY be construed I either believe in ghosts - as normally understood i.e. 'dictionary defined' outright, or whether I further have ever implied UFOs could actually be such 'ghosts'.
This is not hair-splitting stuff. I DO believe there is abundance evidence of Higher Power intelligences inhabiting some other realm of existence, but that is NOT a belief in 'ghosts'.

I cannot absolutely rule out the possibility ghosts might actually be - sometimes - departed soul spirits of deceased humans. But it seems more consistent to me such ghost encounters are just one 'playful' and deceptive practice of imitation of deceased person's persona, by mischievous higher power beings. UFOs being imo just another 'mode' of such mischievous antics.

Something though that serial Trolls and snipers find it convenient to ignore and/or intentionally misconstrue. Over and over ad nauseam in fact.

If the Chief Troll over at SF or his forum hierarchy approved sockpuppet wish to challenge my necessarily indirectly presented corrective here - let them join up here at SciVillage and face me directly!
If perchance either or both are in fact here as lurkers or whatever, man up, come out of the woodwork, and deal with me one-on-one.

[stryder]

Please do not call them "higher power beings" if anything was to exist on the edges of our existence it would likely be a fraternity exploit the weakminded sheeple with bespoken technologies for shits and giggles.

[Kornee]

Please do not call them "higher power beings" if anything was to exist on the edges of our existence it would likely be a fraternity exploit the weakminded sheeple with bespoken technologies for shits and giggles.

Sorry having trouble unpackaging the import of that single (I think it's single) sentence advice. But don't at all feel obliged to elaborate.

[stryder]

Please do not call them "higher power beings". If anything was to exist on the edges of our existence, it would likely be a fraternity exploiting the weakminded sheeple with bespoken technologies for shits and giggles.

Sorry having trouble unpackaging the import of that single (I think it's single) sentence advice. But don't at all feel obliged to elaborate.

Sorry punctuation took a backseat.

Let me put it this way, if there is a group that "wants to believe" then there is likely a group that want's to "fake whatever to make the first group believe", just so they can ridicule them and laugh at them for being clueless.

[Magical Realist]

I cannot absolutely rule out the possibility ghosts might actually be - sometimes - departed soul spirits of deceased humans.

I don't know how familiar you are with the works of Whitley Streiber, (he wrote Communion back in the 80's) but his ongoing thesis, based on a gamut of otherworldly experiences, is that the Greys aren't aliens from another planet, but beings in another dimension. Some of his, and other's, encounters even include the spirits of people who have died. The rather unsettling implication being here that the Greys have something to do with the afterlife. I don't know how ready people are to accept this rather chthonic interpretation of the phenomena, but I find it one more facet of a mystery that continues to intrigue and baffle.

[Kornee]

Please do not call them "higher power beings".  If anything was to exist on the edges of our existence, it would likely be a fraternity exploiting the weakminded sheeple with bespoken technologies for shits and giggles.

Sorry having trouble unpackaging the import of that single (I think it's single) sentence advice. But don't at all feel obliged to elaborate.

Sorry punctuation took a backseat.

Let me put it this way, if there is a group that "wants to believe" then there is likely a group that want's to "fake whatever to make the first group believe", just so they can ridicule them and laugh at them for being clueless.

Entirely agree there. Shark infested waters. A certain 3-letter agency has a track record of putting out 'fake news' just to muddy the waters, or defame individuals/movements etc. on a whole range of topics:
https://newspunch.com/cia-disinfo-progra...said-this/
Many abusive troll posters on various forums have been fingered as payed operatives of governments or their agencies. Israel being particularly notorious in that regard.

Getting back to UFOs more particularly, in the early 1950s the US military/CIA undertook campaigns aimed at both promoting and discrediting public belief in UFOs, depending on the perceived needs at the time.
And of course individuals with no connections to agencies but with a bent towards s**t stirring as sport get skilled at flaming/trolling.

While my own take on what's behind non-mundane UFOs is understandably seen as 'woo thinking' by those committed to a purely materialist worldview, I notice their scorn amounts to at best argument from incredulity. Though they never admit to that. And typically dress it up as 'simply requiring good evidence'. But when pressed as to what exactly that 'good evidence' would need to be, it gets down to 'hard evidence' like alien tech artifacts beyond current human technological capabilities. Or a UFO landing on the White House lawn.
In other words, it assumes that non-mundane UFOs would have to be physical piloted craft from some other planetary system.

If as I maintain the bulk of accumulated evidence points to a supernatural/paranormal explanation, involving free-will entities with a generally mischievous disposition/agenda(s), all of the naive demands for 'good evidence' completely miss the actual nature of the phenomena. These points have been brought up many times over at that long running, twice now renamed SF thread, and were always ignored.

---

I cannot absolutely rule out the possibility ghosts might actually be - sometimes - departed soul spirits of deceased humans.

I don't know how familiar you are with the works of Whitley Streiber, (he wrote Communion back in the 80's) but his ongoing thesis, based on a gamut of otherworldly experiences, is that the Greys aren't aliens from another planet, but beings in another dimension. Some of his, and other's, encounters even include the spirits of people who have died. The rather unsettling implication being here that the Greys have something to do with the afterlife. I don't know how ready people are to accept this rather chthonic interpretation of the phenomena, but I find it one more facet of a mystery that continues to intrigue and baffle.

Only watched the movie version, starring Christopher Walken (perfect for the role) once, but recall being impressed with the 'think outside the box' theme that gradually emerged.

When it comes to the true nature of 'greys', 'ghosts', 'goblins', 'fairies', etc. etc., one is necessarily limited to at best an informed opinion requiring searching widely and in some depth.
The one recurring theme is imo deception. Which doesn't preclude that certain encounters with physically deceased individuals could be genuine.

There can be no way to know for sure, no clincher that settles it. Frustrating but fascinating even exciting too. If there is an afterlife, presumably such issues will become clear to those who 'pass over'.