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(BBC) Why North America's killer heat scares me

#1
C C Offline
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57729502

EXCERPTS (Roger Harrabin): . . . That's not because new record temperatures were set in the north-western US and Canada - that happens from time to time. No, it's because old records were smashed so dramatically. [...] Climatologists are nervous of being accused of alarmism - but many have been frankly alarmed for some time now.

"The extreme nature of the record, along with others, is a cause for real concern," says veteran scientist Professor Sir Brian Hoskins. "What the climate models project for the future is what we would get if we are lucky. The models' behaviour may be too conservative."

In other words, in some places it's likely to be even worse than predicted. [...] Scientists are now striving to predict some of these crazy weather events that are currently taking policy-makers by surprise.

It's not just heat waves, but also pulses of torrential rain that cause devastating floods on a local level. [...] the world is probably heading for 1.5C of heating early next decade, and temperatures will push onwards to 2C and above unless policies radically change. What do we imagine things will be like with a rise of 2C, which was until recently considered to be a relatively "safe" level of change?

Baroness Worthington, a lead author on the UK's Climate Change Act, told me: "Concerned scientists are no longer concerned - they are freaked out. "They're worrying there might not be a 'safe landing' on the climate. We are working on the idea of safe carbon budgets (the amount of carbon we can put into the atmosphere without badly disrupting the climate). But what if there is no safe carbon budget? What if the 'safe' carbon budget is zero. We can't sugar-coat the potential realities of this."

Politicians are working to avert the worst of those potential realities, but even the former UK prime minister Margaret Thatcher remarked in the late 1980s that making such an experiment with our only planet was folly.

[...] Mrs Thatcher - formerly a research chemist - continued: "The result is that change in future is likely to be more fundamental and more widespread than anything we have known hitherto. It is comparable in its implications to the discovery of how to split the atom. Indeed, its results could be even more far-reaching. It is no good squabbling over who is responsible or who should pay. We shall only succeed in dealing with the problems through a vast international, co-operative effort."

This was extraordinarily prescient, and her words were even more devastating from the lips of a towering, right-wing world leader who couldn't be dismissed as a fretful hippy.

If the world had heeded her warning back then, imagine where we would be now? But Thatcher's views were challenged by climate "sceptics" - some of them funded by a decades-long campaign of disinformation from fossil fuel firms. Rich nations fixated on economic growth rather than saving the planet from a hypothetical threat, and developing economies asserted their "right" to pollute the air just as rich nations had done.

Wealthy countries stinted the cash they offered to poor nations to get clean technology. And international negotiations consistently failed to deliver the difficult and sweeping changes Mrs Thatcher thought necessary. At last many leading nations are getting round to devising policies to reduce emissions over coming decades.

It's not just the heat dome they're worried about. We've learned recently about climate extremes in the Antarctic, the Himalayas and - dramatically shown on our interactive graphic - the Arctic. Some scientists are warning that areas of the world will become uninhabitable if current trends continue. So what are our leaders doing to keep us safe?

Well, they're talking a good show, and doubtless some really mean to curb climate change. But the impacts of global heating are happening right now, whereas major nations plan to phase out emissions by 2050.

[...] Here's the problem - the worlds of policy and business are definitely waking up to the climate crisis. But some changes in the natural world appear to be outstripping society's responses. It looks as though Mrs Thatcher was right - we needed drastic action decades ago... (MORE - details)
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#2
Zinjanthropos Offline
For the heck of it I Googled to see if science has completed studies on whether heat or warm trends developed during last ice age. The answer is yes, at least 25 times, confirmed globally. So if this type of abrupt temperature swings occur during an ice age who’s to say that can’t happen during post ice age moderate times? I’m not denying climate change and perhaps human behavior has augmented a natural process, idk.

https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledg...-24288097/
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#3
Yazata Offline
I'm not particularly moved by anything the BBC says about North America. To be blunt, I don't pay much attention to the BBC at all.

From my vantage point actually here in North America, this summer has been cooler than average. There's been a couple of short heat waves, but well within the normal range of variation. In other words, there's been nothing to justify a phrase like "killer heat". That phrase strikes me as gross alarmism.

Quoting Margaret Thatcher looks like another rhetorical ploy to me. It's as if the BBC was thinking, 'Those climate skeptics won't believe the 'climate scientists' who have already lost their credibility with the skeptics. So maybe we can dredge up something that Thatcher said. They will believe her.'
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#4
confused2 Offline
Zinjanthropos Wrote:So if this type of abrupt temperature swings occur during an ice age who’s to say that can’t happen during post ice age moderate times?
Previously: supervolcanos, meteorites, sun not behaving normally.
Now: a bunch of monkeys sets fire to forests and carbon sources that have been collected and buried over millions and millions of years.
Yazata Wrote:'Those climate skeptics won't believe the 'climate scientists' who have already lost their credibility with the skeptics...

We have to do the experiment - burn all the carbon we can find and just see what happens. Que sera sera.
I think we should be honest about the experiment though. Without growth the national debt becomes overwhelming. We need to pay off the people we've borrowed from in the past - kind'a mortgaged the future. We don't have a choice - our creditors leave us no choice - we have to keep burning the ancient carbon until there's nothing left in the ground. Even if we (later) choose not to extract all of the ancient carbon store the simple economics of getting 'our' resources out of the ground and turned into dollars before it loses value applies.
Geologically we're chickenshit compared to a supervolcano or a large meteorite strike. There's still masses of carbon sequestered over millions of years - lets set fire to it and see what happens.
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#5
Zinjanthropos Offline
(Jul 9, 2021 01:43 AM)confused2 Wrote: We have to do the experiment - burn all the carbon we can find and just see what happens. Que sera sera.
I think we should be honest about the experiment though. Without growth the national debt becomes overwhelming. We need to pay off the people we've borrowed from in the past - kind'a mortgaged the future. We don't have a choice - our creditors leave us no choice - we have to keep burning the ancient carbon until there's nothing left in the ground. Even if we (later) choose not to extract all of the ancient carbon store the simple economics of getting 'our' resources out of the ground and turned into dollars before it loses value applies.
Geologically we're chickenshit compared to a supervolcano or a large meteorite strike. There's still masses of carbon sequestered over millions of years - lets set fire to it and see what happens.

Until this moment I never realized just how wonderful it must have been for ice age monkeys. Maybe that’s where this heading, a return to the good old days.

I get it C2 and it makes me think that if a planet harbours carbon based life for billions of years, at some point the stored ancient amount will eventually catch fire one way or the other. Life dooms itself or at least forces a global climate change. Subject to conditions.
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#6
confused2 Offline
Z. Wrote:Until this moment I never realized just how wonderful it must have been for ice age monkeys.
Everything changes, everything stays the same.
(^^ I thought Jean-Paul Sartre - maybe not)
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#7
Zinjanthropos Offline
Reduce GW, have fewer kids or get rich

https://populationmatters.org/climate-change

Excerpt: Every additional person increases carbon emissions — the rich far more than the poor — and increases the number of climate change victims – the poor far more than the rich.
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