Death Beckons

(Dec 2, 2016 05:18 AM)Syne Wrote:

(Dec 2, 2016 05:05 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Anyways if she keeps smoking knowing full well it could kill her in the end then she gets her wish. Why isn't knowingly ingesting toxins that could eventually kill you considered suicidal behavior?

I guess there's a bit of difference between self-destructive and suicidal. I do use smoking and other self-destructive habits to assess people in my personal life though, knowing that there's a very thin line between being self-destructive and just being destructive.

Easier to sue the tobacco companies and be compensated for poor choices. Not a good death but you get to drag a little oxygen bottle around while you talk through a hole in your throat.

(Dec 2, 2016 10:09 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:

(Dec 2, 2016 05:18 AM)Syne Wrote: I guess there's a bit of difference between self-destructive and suicidal. I do use smoking and other self-destructive habits to assess people in my personal life though, knowing that there's a very thin line between being self-destructive and just being destructive.

Easier to sue the tobacco companies and be compensated for poor choices. Not a good death but you get to drag a little oxygen bottle around while you talk through a hole in your throat.

Yeah, any way to avoid personal responsibility.

i only had to watch a couple of minutes to tel she felt out of control yet hampered by a dycotimy of control over her psychiatric condition.
i would have a guess she has neural pathways locked open as a default which make her feel a sense of no attachment while having a sense of dissasociation.
i would be willing to bet money(expresion) that she probably lived in a hyper controlled confined manner that expressed all her actions as extremely subjective... which would simply compound the situation.
the attraction of maintaining those patterns of slow decay would be very strong with a general dissasociative disorder.
in the attempt to feel something while trying not to feel.
bouncing between attempting to assert the self over the world about her and not to feel anything while she does it.
creating a feed back loop that is pathalogical.

probably mainstream common anti psyche drugs would simply magnify the effect of dissasociation and then when they wear off she gets clearer subjective thought which then charactuers her selfg in the mindset of her condition.

it is probably a condition muc along the lines of basic schitzophrenia with a developmental self actualisation interuption due to chemical imbalance of the schitzophrenia compounding a probable mania which is basic autism spectrum (like OCD and hyper activity).


dissasociative drugs which are mainstream and common probably only make the situation worse as it then creates a mania of duality in her upper and lower consciousenes(sub or mind as you prefer).

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admittedly if she is presenting as uni-polar and un-motivated to seek new or fulfilling expereinces then it deeply confuses things for the profesionals, and keeping in mind she characatuers herself then she actually plays a character when communicating much like multiple personality disorder/ more soo BPD.
it is probably about time ongoing patients used video diarys that their psychiatrist can look at later on like a video diary log.
society has little to no room for mental illness in general day to day life where patients are soo sensatised to feel impeeded by general social interaction.
this is where interactive cognitive behavioural therapy probably needs to be stepped up, however it seems there is no desire from the public to push for funding of this type of thing.
generally mental health is seen as a complete loss on a cost basis which is terribly detrimental to the health of the patient.

(Dec 3, 2016 12:36 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: generally mental health is seen as a complete loss on a cost basis which is terribly detrimental to the health of the patient.

Suicide is also detrimental to patient health. 

Euthanasia isn't exactly cheap although the drugs administered are only about $100. Overall I've heard it could cost anywhere between 10-15 thousand dollars and that may be low. However it beats institutionalizing and all the costs associated with that. I think you're right if the implication is that governments see euthanasia as a savings.

(Dec 1, 2016 11:41 PM)stryder Wrote: So there's a certain amount of perspective to be had if people are only willing to think about more than just themselves, therefore suicide can actually be quite selfish.

A sin—a crime—a selfish act, could those be just stigmas associated with suicide and mental illness?

How about heroic suicide? The glorification of dying for ideals or an entity. Is it a selfish act, if so, by whom, the one or the many?

(Dec 3, 2016 03:52 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote:

(Dec 1, 2016 11:41 PM)stryder Wrote: So there's a certain amount of perspective to be had if people are only willing to think about more than just themselves, therefore suicide can actually be quite selfish.

A sin—a crime—a selfish act, could those be just stigmas associated with suicide and mental illness?  

How about heroic suicide?  The glorification of dying for ideals or an entity.  Is it a selfish act, if so, by whom, the one or the many?

The stigma involved is what people have always sought to do with the mentally ill. Drug them into a docile stupor. Suicide is just so much more effective in that goal. Even the mental health professionals involved here seem to be motivated to sweep the problem under the rug...six feet under.

Sacrifice is in terms of achieving a goal, while suicide is in terms of escaping all goals. Very different motivations. While the sacrifice may make the death mean something, the suicide seems to be the assumption that life is meaningless.

(Dec 3, 2016 04:32 AM)Syne Wrote: The stigma involved is what people have always sought to do with the mentally ill. Drug them into a docile stupor. Suicide is just so much more effective in that goal. Even the mental health professionals involved here seem to be motivated to sweep the problem under the rug...six feet under.

Sacrifice is in terms of achieving a goal, while suicide is in terms of escaping all goals. Very different motivations. While the sacrifice may make the death mean something, the suicide seems to be the assumption that life is meaningless.

How about intervention?  Is drugging them, physically restraining them, or institutionalizing them justifiable?

Does a belief in an afterlife contribute to sacrificing or escaping one's life?

(Dec 3, 2016 05:53 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote:

(Dec 3, 2016 04:32 AM)Syne Wrote: The stigma involved is what people have always sought to do with the mentally ill. Drug them into a docile stupor. Suicide is just so much more effective in that goal. Even the mental health professionals involved here seem to be motivated to sweep the problem under the rug...six feet under.

Sacrifice is in terms of achieving a goal, while suicide is in terms of escaping all goals. Very different motivations. While the sacrifice may make the death mean something, the suicide seems to be the assumption that life is meaningless.

How about intervention?  Is drugging them, physically restraining them, or institutionalizing them justifiable?

Does a belief in an afterlife contribute to sacrificing or escaping one's life?

I'm unsure about generalizing interventions. I don't see any benefit, other than allaying the discomfort of others, to drugging, and institutionalizing usually includes drugging. Maybe a sedative in extreme cases, but only on a case by case basis and definitely not as a routine. Same with restraints. The problem is that those who are a danger to themselves can easily become a danger to others, even if only as collateral damage. So there are cases which do need to be sequestered. Society does have some obligation to protect the mentally ill and handicapped from themselves, but mostly be means of not contributing.

While belief in an afterlife may effect willingness to sacrifice, it's definitely less of a factor in suicide.

(Dec 3, 2016 06:52 AM)Syne Wrote: Sacrifice is in terms of achieving a goal, while suicide is in terms of escaping all goals. Very different motivations. While the sacrifice may make the death mean something, the suicide seems to be the assumption that life is meaningless.

While belief in an afterlife may effect willingness to sacrifice, it's definitely less of a factor in suicide.

Christianity condemned it.  It violated our duty to God and to the community.  Our body was not our own.  It belonged to God.  Durkheim reasoned that social integration reduced suicide rates through a sense of belonging and feeling wanted, but church attendance is down along with the belief in hell.  It is now one of the leading causes of death in the United States.  

While the objective of dying for a cause, an entity, or protecting others is obvious, I don’t necessarily agree that other forms of suicide are without aim.  Some feel that they are a burden and that the world would be better off without them.  In their mind it is a form of altruistic suicide.  

The girl in the video, her goal was to experience a sense of peace.  The relief from psychological anguish or physical pain is a goal.

I can’t understand how the concept of an experience beyond this life wouldn’t be a contributing factor.

(Dec 3, 2016 05:42 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: While the objective of dying for a cause, an entity, or protecting others is obvious, I don’t necessarily agree that other forms of suicide are without aim.  Some feel that they are a burden and that the world would be better off without them.  In their mind it is a form of altruistic suicide.  

The girl in the video, her goal was to experience a sense of peace.  The relief from psychological anguish or physical pain is a goal.

The aim of suicide is always some extreme form of selfish escapism, no matter the justification.