Trump's attack on mail-in voting

Delusional Donny says voting by mail is corrupt and riddled with fraud and that he will ban it nationwide. Meanwhile...

Two things can both be true. Mail-in voting for the general population can be prone to fraud (as evidence all the Democrats that have been charged/prosecuted/convicted) and overseas military need a way to exercise their rights (which has not proven prone to fraud).

Quote:prone to fraud (as evidence all the Democrats that have been charged/prosecuted/convicted)

Either it's prone to fraud as Trump claims or isn't. Doesn't matter if it's for civilians or the military.

So what Democrats have been charged and convicted of voter fraud? And what are the stats on voter fraud in states that have mail-in voting? Nevermind. Here's the stats:

"Extensive research indicates that instances of fraud in mail-in voting are exceptionally rare.

Here's a breakdown of the statistics and findings:

Extremely Low Rates: Studies consistently show that the rate of voter fraud in the US, including mail-in voting, is extremely low. One study by the Brennan Center for Justice in 2017 found the rate to be less than 0.0009%.

Oregon's Experience: Oregon, a pioneer in vote-by-mail, has sent out over 100 million ballots since 2000 and documented only around a dozen cases of proven fraud, a rate of 0.00001%.

Analysis of Mail Ballot States: A Washington Post analysis of five elections in vote-by-mail states in 2016 and 2018 found a 0.0025% rate of possible voter fraud.

Heritage Foundation Database: While some, like the Heritage Foundation, maintain databases tracking election fraud cases, even these typically identify only a small number of instances when viewed in the context of the vast number of ballots cast nationwide. For example, the Heritage Foundation database identified 143 cases of criminal convictions involving absentee ballots over 20 years, representing 0.00006% of total votes cast.

Security Measures: Vote-by-mail systems incorporate several security features to deter and detect fraud, such as:

Requiring registered voters to request absentee ballots.

Mailing ballots only to the official address listed on voter registration rolls.

Requiring voter signatures on the external envelope.

Election authorities verify the signature on the ballot envelope against the voter's signature on file.

Allowing voters to track their ballots.

Ideally voting should have an electronic receipt that is available within days of voting.  It should allow you to check:

• When you voted.
  
• Where you voted.
  
• Who you voted for.
  
• Whether the vote was counted (or spoiled)
  

Obviously it not completely simple. for instance storing information about "who you voted for" would likely require some sort of cryptography.  It shouldn't be readable in plaintext just encase their is a breach in the database, as a list of party supporters being leaked to a petty and hostile opposition wouldn't go down well. (death threats, harassment, violence etc)  So you'd likely need a passphrase when you vote, that the vote is encoded by.  (not the same as any of your passwords)

Most people will find that if they could find out that:

• Your vote been counted. (and not spoiled)
  
• Your vote still aligned to who you voted for.
  

They should realise that there hasn't been any manipulation of their vote.

The current system with no receipt means that if you don't vote, you can't find out if someone else has voted in your place (especially with mail-in) which could lead to all sorts of mischief,  it should of been fixed years ago but for some reason a majority of governments seem to like to be able to creatively count peoples votes without anyone spotting it.

Tons of convicted absentee ballot fraud: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...-SD020.pdf
ANY fraud shows it is an insecure method of voting and erodes public trust in election results.

Can you show any cases of military absentee ballot fraud? @_@

Michigan city councilman caught on camera stuffing election drop box with absentee ballots days before primary

A Michigan city council member was caught on camera stuffing an election drop box with apparent absentee ballots just days before he won his re-election bid in a local primary.
...
But only 286 of those votes were cast on Election Day — with 843 being cast by absentee ballot, the Daily Mail reported.

Musa would have placed fifth without the absentee ballots, according to the Mail.
...
Local Michigan law has no limit on how many absentee ballots a single person can physically turn in on other voters’ behalf — but people can only submit another person’s absentee ballot if they are close relatives or live in their home.

Absentee ballot drop boxes are a huge liability in election security.

From the link Syne gave..

Quote:1,176 PROVEN INSTANCES OF VOTER FRAUD

From the list of examples..

Quote:Stephen Ray Thomason
OUTCOME: CRIMINAL CONVICTION
Ineligible Voting
Stephen Ray Thomason pleaded guilty to a felony charge of
registering to vote despite being a convicted felon. Thomason had
been convicted of homicide in 1972, but only months later was able
to register to vote. His status as a convicted felon was apparently
“overlooked” by state officials.

So you're saying absentee voting is fraudulent but not mail-in voting? You do know the difference don't you? Mail-in voting makes absentee voting unnecessary.

"All-Mail Elections: A growing number of states conduct their elections entirely by mail, meaning all registered voters automatically receive their ballots by mail and don't need to request an absentee ballot. These states are: California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, and Washington state."

Quote:Can you show any cases of military absentee ballot fraud?

You're the one claiming it is prone to fraud. Can't find any military cases?

Quote:A Michigan city council member was caught on camera stuffing an election drop box with apparent absentee ballots just days before he won his re-election bid in a local primary.

Absentee ballot drop boxes are a huge liability in election security.

And with all mail-in voting those are totally eliminated, making the results more secure.

(Aug 22, 2025 01:33 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: So you're saying absentee voting is fraudulent but not mail-in voting? You do know the difference don't you? Mail-in voting makes absentee voting unnecessary.

States allow voters who cannot or do not want to vote in person to cast mail-in or drop off ballots through absentee voting or vote-by-mail programs.
- https://www.usa.gov/absentee-voting

Depends on the state. In some states, you do not need a reason to vote absentee, which is essentially just mail-in voting:

But in some states, you may qualify to sign up to receive absentee ballots for every election.
- https://www.usa.gov/absentee-voting

Quote:"All-Mail Elections: A growing number of states conduct their elections entirely by mail, meaning all registered voters automatically receive their ballots by mail and don't need to request an absentee ballot. These states are: California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, and Washington state."

Ahem:

(Aug 21, 2025 10:00 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Security Measures: Vote-by-mail systems incorporate several security features to deter and detect fraud, such as:

Requiring registered voters to request absentee ballots.

Instead of absentee voting programs, some states offer vote-by-mail (also known as all-mail) programs. They automatically send ballots to all registered voters in the state before Election Day.
- https://www.usa.gov/absentee-voting

Quote:

Quote:Can you show any cases of military absentee ballot fraud?

You're the one claiming it is prone to fraud. Can't find any military cases?

Ahem, learn to read:

(Aug 21, 2025 09:34 PM)Syne Wrote: ... overseas military need a way to exercise their rights (which has not proven prone to fraud).

Quote:

Quote:A Michigan city council member was caught on camera stuffing an election drop box with apparent absentee ballots just days before he won his re-election bid in a local primary.

Absentee ballot drop boxes are a huge liability in election security.

And with all mail-in voting those are totally eliminated, making the results more secure.

Again:

(Aug 21, 2025 10:00 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Security Measures: Vote-by-mail systems incorporate several security features to deter and detect fraud, such as:

Requiring registered voters to request absentee ballots.

And:

Know your options for returning your absentee or vote-by-mail ballot

Check with your state or local election office to learn about other ways to return your ballot besides postal mail. Some states have ballot drop boxes.
- https://www.usa.gov/absentee-voting

And I know you don't get out much, but your state has drop boxes for your "All-Mail Elections": https://sos.oregon.gov/voting/Pages/drop...cator.aspx

Quote:Depends on the state. In some states, you do not need a reason to vote absentee, which is essentially just mail-in voting

Making absentee voting unnecessary, just as I said.

Quote:... overseas military need a way to exercise their rights (which has not proven prone to fraud).

Mail-in voting in states that have it hasn't proven prone to fraud either.. Do I need to repeat the stats on that?

Quote:Requiring registered voters to request absentee ballots.

Uh no. I've been voting by mail for about 23 years now and never have had to request an absentee ballot. Why do you think that is?

Quote:And I know you don't get out much, but your state has drop boxes for your "All-Mail Elections"

If the ballot is dropped in a ballot box it's not mailed-in. Do you understand the distinction?

(Aug 22, 2025 04:03 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:

Quote:... overseas military need a way to exercise their rights (which has not proven prone to fraud).

Mail-in voting in states that have it hasn't proven prone to fraud either.. Do I need to repeat the stats on that?

I already gave examples, if only you could read.

Quote:

Quote:Requiring registered voters to request absentee ballots.

Uh no. I've been voting by mail for about 23 years now and never have had to request an absentee ballot. Why do you think that is?

Yet you said requesting a ballot was a way to secure vote-by-mail elections:

(Aug 21, 2025 10:00 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Security Measures: Vote-by-mail systems incorporate several security features to deter and detect fraud, such as:

Requiring registered voters to request absentee ballots.

Thanks for verifying yours aren't secure.

Quote:

Quote:And I know you don't get out much, but your state has drop boxes for your "All-Mail Elections"

If the ballot is dropped in a ballot box it's not mailed-in. Do you understand the distinction?

Take that up with your own state, dipshit. You can take that ballot they send you and either mail it or drop it in a drop box.
Funny you're trying to act like you know anything when you don't even know your own state's voting.