Trump falsely accuses Ukraine of starting the war

(Mar 3, 2025 01:38 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: They’re still just a candidate for the EU. If Europe is so gung-ho, why not make them a member now?

That does make you wonder about EU commitment to Ukraine. All this talk seems to be just that... talk.
They've yet to take any real action. And EU membership has zero risks of escalating the war, as it doesn't implicate US involvement.
And let's face it, Putin's not scared of the EU without the US being its teeth.

Quote:Not really. He was a business partner with Zelensky, and he owned that show.

You just said this:

Quote:Syne: Zelenskyy is a paid actor working for Kolomoisky.

SS: Maybe in the beginning but Kolomoisky is in prison now

So Zelensky isn't working for Kolomoisky anymore because he is in prison..That means there is no conspiracy..Right?

Kolomoisky wasn't put in prison by Zelenskyy. And yes, people can still work for others who are in prison. Happens all the time with gangs, cartels, the mafia, etc..

Syne Wrote:See, you morons literally want WWIII. All just so Putin doesn't get his way. How many people do you want to die just to spite Putin?
That's literally an insane level of hatred... that usually only happens through propaganda and brainwashing.

Putin's a great guy, I really like him - he just has a territory management problem - that's all. Help him with his territory annexation thing and we'll all be happy as hamsters again.

Quote:Kolomoisky wasn't put in prison by Zelenskyy. And yes, people can still work for others who are in prison. Happens all the time with gangs, cartels, the mafia, etc..

Uh huh..secret Mafia cartel gang he is the don of. Sounds like an episode of the Sopranos..lol!

(Mar 2, 2025 11:41 PM)confused2 Wrote: I'm thinking the way forward is for the US to pull out of NATO .. hopefully on the very best of terms.

NATO obligates the US to go to war for other countries that hope to outsource their own defense to us in order to fund their welfare states. NATO contributes very little to American security needs around the world while it simultaneously weakens Europe. Now Ukraine raises the stakes to potential nuclear war.

The argument for American withdrawal is that doing so would force Europe to take primary responsibility for its own defense. Europe's combined GDP, population, technology and industrial strength rival the US and there's no reason why they can't. It's a choice.

I agree that the US and the rest of NATO should remain friends and allies. The US should be prepared to help our friends if they need it. Ideally they won't if they return to being better able to take care of themselves. And they would have acquired an increased ability to help us when we need it as well.

A stronger Europe, friendly with the United States while able to stand alongside us as an equal, would be better for the United States, for Europe, and for the whole world.    

Quote:We can see Putin can't invade Europe - he's been bogged down in just one country for three years - 'Europe' should be able to push him back.

Exactly!

The rhetoric shrieks that if Russia isn't stopped (by the US in some large part) in eastern Ukraine, then Moscow will roll over the rest of Europe.

While in reality the Russian army has performed terribly and can't even defeat much smaller Ukraine. Russia simply lacks the ability to defeat Europe right now or in the foreseeable future. As Russia learns from its mistakes and improves its forces, Europe wll have been growing stronger too.

“Well, Secretary [Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick], you were sitting across from the president on Friday,” Bartiromo said, adding later, “I want to get your reaction to what went down. How was it in the room? And do you believe Democrats were egging on Zelensky to not say thank you, to stay tough and not sign that rare earth minerals deal?”

Lutnick replied: “No, so we were 40 minutes before the cameras came in, and 45 minutes before the meltdown, and the fact was, Zelensky never stopped asking for, you know — ‘I will give no concessions. They have got to leave my land. I want reparations of $300 billion. And I want the United States to give me security guarantees while they’re at war with Russia.'”
- https://www.dailywire.com/news/commerce-...guarantees

Spoiled child with no grasp of reality. Would be terrible if Democrats did prep him before hand.

Yeah, Trumper's gonna say whatever makes Daddy happy. It's like being a member of the mob. It's either that or get the axe.

So... just Trumpers, huh?

As Ukraine marks three years since Russia’s full-scale ground invasion and its forces continue to battle Russian forces, Kyiv is intensifying its push for financial reparations, arguing that Moscow must be held accountable for the devastation it has wrought.
...
Ukraine is also advocating for access to Russian state assets frozen abroad, particularly the nearly $300 billion held in G7 countries.
- https://www.jpost.com/international/article-843388

Zelensky explained it is essential to have Trump’s support and that America’s help is “vital” for his country’s survival. But Ukraine needs a “just and lasting peace,” which means security guarantees—not just a cease-fire,
- https://www.barrons.com/articles/trump-z...g-9950f865

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(Mar 3, 2025 05:01 AM)Syne Wrote: So... just Trumpers, huh?

As Ukraine marks three years since Russia’s full-scale ground invasion and its forces continue to battle Russian forces, Kyiv is intensifying its push for financial reparations, arguing that Moscow must be held accountable for the devastation it has wrought.
...
Ukraine is also advocating for access to Russian state assets frozen abroad, particularly the nearly $300 billion held in G7 countries.
- https://www.jpost.com/international/article-843388

Zelensky explained it is essential to have Trump’s support and that America’s help is “vital” for his country’s survival. But Ukraine needs a “just and lasting peace,” which means security guarantees—not just a cease-fire,
- https://www.barrons.com/articles/trump-z...g-9950f865

9_9

None of those quotes justify how Trump and Vance treated Zelensky before the whole world. It was a pathetic demonstration to everyone of how this toxic administration has turned its back on an embattled and war torn Ukraine for no reason whatsoever. It sends the message to never trust America ever again if they can stab you in the back like this, to the utter shame of all Americans. This is not who we are as a people and never has been. And if you think it is then you weren't paying attention in history class.