Why do conservatives hate renewable energy?

Geordief Wrote:Your caption is too indistinct for me to read...

The poor quality was accidental but by chance I thought it captured the essence of a thing that is clearly visible and of great importance to some folks whereas to others it is invisible or perhaps just too irritating to bother with.

I thought Syne gave a good answer to the question "Why do conservatives hate renewable energy?" - it's a crusade against a crusade.

Syne Wrote:Why are renewables a crusade? Is it because they will never prove themselves cheaper, more abundant, or more efficient?

Without the CO2 graph there's no reason to prefer renewable energy over fossil fuels - which is the point both Yazata and Syne have been making.

(Jul 28, 2024 03:33 PM)confused2 Wrote:

Geordief Wrote:Your caption is too indistinct for  me to read...

The poor quality was accidental but by chance I thought it captured the essence of a thing that is clearly visible and of great importance to some folks whereas to others it is invisible or perhaps just too irritating to bother with.

I thought Syne gave a good answer to the question "Why do conservatives hate renewable energy?" - it's a crusade against a crusade.

Syne Wrote:Why are renewables a crusade? Is it because they will never prove themselves cheaper, more abundant, or more efficient?

Without the CO2 graph there's no reason to prefer renewable energy over fossil fuels - which is the point both Yazata and Syne have been making.

Are scientific charts a step too far for subsections of the population?Does everyone have the skills or desire to examine data dispassionately?

(Jul 28, 2024 03:33 PM)confused2 Wrote: Without the CO2 graph there's no reason to prefer renewable energy over fossil fuels - which is the point both Yazata and Syne have been making.

I remain unconvinced by the CO2 graph.

My biggest doubt concerns the scale of the y-axis. It's in ppm (parts per million) I think. While the steep upward slope of the graph is concerning, the mole-fraction of CO2 in Earth's atmosphere is still only 417 ppm (or 0.0417%). So what we seem to have is what appears to be a sharp increase... in a very tiny fraction.

That doesn't seem to justify all the apocalyptic talk that we hear: "extinction level event", "Earth on fire" and comparisons with Venus' runaway greenhouse effect. (Venus' atmosphere is 96.5% CO2, and it's closer to the Sun.)

So I'm inclined to think that a lot of what I read is little more than scare-mongering, intended to scare people into accepting radical social changes that they otherwise wouldn't have favored.

That being said, I think that there are other reasons to favor renewables:

If fossil fuels are a limited resource, then it seems like a bad idea for humanity to deplete them into oblivion. Perhaps we should save them for the future. Moving to more sustainable long-term sources of energy might therefore be a good idea.

But if we shut down domestic fossil fuel production before the changeover to renewables is complete, and move instead to importing most of our fossil fuels from less than friendly parts of the world, that exposes us to geopolitical risk.

What politicians superficially say or allow the press to dispense the perception of, versus conflicting reality. Red States take the green agenda funds when they are handed-out, as well as advancing their own internal policies and programs. Just like (opposite direction) the US contrarily producing more fossil fuel during Biden's stint than any time in history.

Six of the Top Ten in 2022 were Red States: Idaho, South Dakota, Iowa, Montana, Kansas, Oklahoma.

List of U.S. states by renewable electricity production
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U....production

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Iowa is a very red state. It’s also a clean-energy powerhouse
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/13/politics/...index.html

As Iowa Republicans gather across the state Monday evening in the bitter cold to caucus for their preferred GOP candidate, much of the electricity for their lights and heat may be coming from a surprising source: thousands of wind turbines that dot the heartland landscape.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Georgia
https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/...ewable-en/

[...] Led by Republican Gov. Brian Kemp, Georgia has committed billions in property tax breaks, grants, worker training and tax credits in its aim to become an EV and battery manufacturing hub — something the Atlanta Journal Constitution reported is "a priority among state leaders."

https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/n...956022007/

A recent report ranks Georgia second in the nation for clean energy projects, creating nearly 30,000 clean energy jobs.

Throughout the state, new clean energy projects have spurred $23.12 billion in investment, the second highest in the nation, in four sectors − solar, batteries, electric vehicles and other clean energy technologies − according to the Climate Power Clean Energy Boom report.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Kansas
https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/...ewable-en/

[...] Kansas promotes payments, tax credits, tax exemptions and other incentives it offers for renewables. It has also set a statewide goal for electric utilities to generate or purchase 20% of peak demand power from renewable sources and has created a public-private coalition to pursue federal funding for hydrogen energy production.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

More than 80% of electricity on the Texas grid was carbon-free at one point Sunday
https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2...int-sunday

Texas political leaders have created policies to incentivize the building of more natural gas power plants to be on hand during those times. Some even think the state should play a more active role in building plants.

“If we can’t get an incentive program to attract investors to build, then the state will have to build [the power plants] ourselves,” Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick recently told reporters in Houston.

[...] Over 70% of the energy Texans used Sunday came from wind and solar power — a record for the state power grid. And that's not the only record the state energy system broke: When you add nuclear power generation into the mix, about 83% of the electricity used Sunday came from non-carbon-emitting sources.

Yazata Wrote:My biggest doubt concerns the scale of the y-axis.

I've posted CO2 conc. (ppm) data 1800 to present with 0ppm at the origin
https://www.scivillage.com/thread-16251-...l#pid65443
To use..
Copy the text to a text editor
save as CO2.csv
load into a spreadsheet (it should take the csv without tweaks)
Select graph (somehow) and XY scatter plot.

The sensitivity of global temperature to CO2 is .. ???????
Edit.. Thermodynamics kicks in at −459.67 °F so a very small percentage change in equilibrium might be more °F change than we might like it to be .

Trump's idiotic tirade against windmills. He calls them "monsters".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec9P3C1OXqE

(Jul 28, 2024 06:48 PM)C C Wrote: What politicians superficially say or allow the press to dispense the perception of, versus conflicting reality. Red States take the green agenda funds when they are handed-out, as well as advancing their own internal policies and programs. Just like (opposite direction) the US contrarily producing more fossil fuel during Biden's stint than any time in history.

Six of the Top Ten in 2022 were Red States: Idaho, South Dakota, Iowa, Montana, Kansas, Oklahoma.

List of U.S. states by renewable electricity production
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U....production

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Iowa is a very red state. It’s also a clean-energy powerhouse
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/13/politics/...index.html

As Iowa Republicans gather across the state Monday evening in the bitter cold to caucus for their preferred GOP candidate, much of the electricity for their lights and heat may be coming from a surprising source: thousands of wind turbines that dot the heartland landscape.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Georgia
https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/...ewable-en/

[...] Led by Republican Gov. Brian Kemp, Georgia has committed billions in property tax breaks, grants, worker training and tax credits in its aim to become an EV and battery manufacturing hub — something the Atlanta Journal Constitution reported is "a priority among state leaders."

https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/n...956022007/

A recent report ranks Georgia second in the nation for clean energy projects, creating nearly 30,000 clean energy jobs.

Throughout the state, new clean energy projects have spurred $23.12 billion in investment, the second highest in the nation, in four sectors − solar, batteries, electric vehicles and other clean energy technologies − according to the Climate Power Clean Energy Boom report.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Kansas
https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/...ewable-en/

[...] Kansas promotes payments, tax credits, tax exemptions and other incentives it offers for renewables. It has also set a statewide goal for electric utilities to generate or purchase 20% of peak demand power from renewable sources and has created a public-private coalition to pursue federal funding for hydrogen energy production.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

More than 80% of electricity on the Texas grid was carbon-free at one point Sunday
https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2...int-sunday

Texas political leaders have created policies to incentivize the building of more natural gas power plants to be on hand during those times. Some even think the state should play a more active role in building plants.

“If we can’t get an incentive program to attract investors to build, then the state will have to build [the power plants] ourselves,” Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick recently told reporters in Houston.

[...] Over 70% of the energy Texans used Sunday came from wind and solar power — a record for the state power grid. And that's not the only record the state energy system broke: When you add nuclear power generation into the mix, about 83% of the electricity used Sunday came from non-carbon-emitting sources.

Obviously (?) not all politicians are evil fools. Trump is doing a 'best fit' to please his chosen voters .. the best fit includes acknowledging there is a fair amount of antipathy to using renewable energy for a variety of reasons. If oil companies fear their oil might get stuck in the ground they're going to want to get it brought up and sold before that happens - so no surprise production is increasing (also the price is high).