Israel-Gaza War (and Iranian Distractions)

big question is will iran make another attack
counting the huthis as their 1st if not the oct 7 attack as their 1st and huthis attack as 2nd

& will Hizbollah tee off

Replying to far-left congresswoman AOC on X, Elon said, "Starlink will support connectivity to internationally recognized aid organizations in Gaza."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1718224153474388433

Shlomo Karhi, the Israeli Communications Minister was not happy, writing:

"Israel will use all means at its disposal to fight this.

HAMAS will use it for terrorist activities. There is no doubt about it, we know it, and musk knows it. HAMAS is ISIS.

Perhaps Musk would be willing to condition it with the release of our abducted babies, sons, daughters, elderly people. All of them!

By then, my office will cut any ties with starlink."

https://twitter.com/shlomo_karhi/status/...3666211328

To which Elon replied:

"We are not so naive.

Per my post, no Starlink terminal has attempted to connect from Gaza.

If one does, we will take extraordinary measures to confirm that it is used *only* for purely humanitarian reasons.

Moreover, we will do a security check with both the US and Israeli governments before turning on even a single terminal."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1718376814769258956

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Lt. General Herzi Halevia, the Chief of General Staff of the Israel Defense Force (IDF) announced today:

"Three Weeks have now passed since the Start of War. This War has Stages and today we moved into a New Phase. Our Ground Forces are currently carrying out Ground Operations in the Gaza Strip, which serve to achieve all the War's Objectives, the Dismantling of Hamas, Security at the Borders, and uppermost efforts to Return all the Hostages back to their Homes. The Objectives of the War have required Ground Entry. There are No Achievements without Risks, and there is No Victory without Prices to be Paid. In order to expose the Enemy and Destroy them, there is no other way but to enter its Territory with Great Force. This Action serves all the Objectives of the War.”

Early reports say that the Israelis penetrated about 1 1/2 miles down the Mediterranean beach from the northern tip of Gaza. This is a relatively lightly populated area and the Israelis report little resistance so far (nobody expects that good fortune to last long).

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(Oct 28, 2023 11:15 PM)confused2 Wrote: From no particular source.. Hamas has popular support among the Palestinians. If Hamas is the Palestinians and the Palestinians are Hamas .. eliminating Hamas isn't going to be easy or pleasant - I suspect the Israelis already know that.

I don't think that there's any hope that the Israeli army can wipe out pro-Hamas sympathies with a ground attack.

I think that their goal is to wipe out Hamas' military infrastructure: to kill as many Hamas fighters as possible, to destroy caches of arms and ammunition, to clear the tunnels and destroy the rocket workshops. In other words, to weaken them to the point that they no longer represent a serious threat to Israel.

does Elon Propose to give star link to Hamas ?

a little dumb founded irony in one of the AID CEO's talking about being unable to do his daily head count and then saying he is writing to them all when they dont have access to their email to read what he is writing to them but he is saying that he is contacting them even though he knows they have no contact.

willingly going to a war zone(a city controlled and ruled by terrorists with the majority of the population who support that terrorist organization) then playing the part of a helpless victim is a bit of a poor game.

(Oct 28, 2023 10:07 AM)Syne Wrote: If you can't see any difference, in real world consequences, between religions, you're just willfully and hopelessly ignorant.

And if you think people wouldn't be racist, genocidal, desire territorial conquest, etc. without religion, again, you're naive and ignorant. Do you think Putin has a religious motive for invading Ukraine? Do you think North Korea has religious motives in its desire for South Korea? Saddam for Kuwait? Do you think Hitler had a religious motive for the Holocaust? What about the Armenian Genocide?

Do you think WWI, WWII, Korean, or Vietnamese wars happened due to religion? Modern wars that have nothing to do with religion have long surpassed ancient religious wars in terms of deaths and civilian casualties.

Truth be told Syne. I get increasingly frustated at how stupid the world has got (perhaps it's too many "Smart devices")

Your right I might be a little off base saying that Israel held Palestinians (like a human shield) to keep warfare at bay, however they did kettle them in a enclave and kettling over a prolonged period is just going to cause harsher responses by those being kettled.

The only fix in the overall situation is the removal of Hamas, however it also means they need to remove that bloody wall they've been Kettling with.

If you herd people into an environment where they are constantly surveiled, with armed confrontations, stiffling goods deliveries/power/water/sanitation and the need of a passport to move through a gate then your going to expect that the people trapped in that wall are going to gravitate to the worst kinds of people to try to alleviate the situation (e.g. through force).

Having a wall is dehumanising and disrespectful, as it means on either side people plot, dream or have nightmares about what to expect on the otherside. The Israeli's likely see the other side of that wall being nothing but terrorists, and the Palestinians just see a Zionist police state. Neither sees themselves for who they are while there is a wall in the way.

The problem is that integrating both Palestinians and Israeli's to play nice with each other in the same country after all the horrible shit they've done to each other isn't going to be easy (especially for those that have suffered losses). That being said, that is what those that survive and come out the other end need to concentrate on, how and where to go from here and how not to just get stuck in the same repetative cycle of death and destruction.

(Oct 29, 2023 07:03 AM)stryder Wrote: Your right I might be a little off base saying that Israel held Palestinians (like a human shield) to keep warfare at bay, however they did kettle them in a enclave and kettling over a prolonged period is just going to cause harsher responses by those being kettled.

That's just a pretense for terrorism. Palestinians were given their own area, to govern themselves, and they became a refuge for terrorists.
This whole spiel about occupation ("kettling") is them believing they deserve to have all of Israel. And to that end, they overtly support genocide.

You are not "occupied" because you want your neighbors territory. That would be as ridiculous as saying Russia is justified because it has been occupied by Ukraine.
All the Arab/Muslim states have repeatedly refused to take in Palestinian refugees, claiming they are extremists who would destabilize their own countries. So why should Israel, to whom they are overtly hostile, act any different. It's a completely illogical contradiction.

Quote:The only fix in the overall situation is the removal of Hamas, however it also means they need to remove that bloody wall they've been Kettling with.

You mean the wall they've been protecting themselves with. Even once they remove Hamas' military capabilities, improvised suicide bombers will remain a threat, and plenty more sympathetic Palestinians can still be radicalized. Removing the wall would just require an Israeli police/military presence in what has been self-governed since 1994, with the establishment of the Palestinian Authority/Palestinian State. Then they would have MORE reason to claim they are "occupied." The current situation is a close to a two-state solution that you can get with genocidal people on one side.

It's a catch-22....unless you just allow Israel to protect itself.

Quote:If you herd people into an environment where they are constantly surveiled, with armed confrontations, stiffling goods deliveries/power/water/sanitation and the need of a passport to move through a gate then your going to expect that the people trapped in that wall are going to gravitate to the worst kinds of people to try to alleviate the situation (e.g. through force).

Palestinians have always brought the armed confrontations on themselves, and the only stifling of goods and power have been as a direct result of them harboring terrorists after they attacked innocent civilians. If they don't like it, they should take a stand against that element of their own society. But instead, the people voted for Hamas, which led to internal violence with the Palestinian Authority.

Most people need a passport to pass into another country. You don't seem to understand the obvious fact that their animus toward Israel is what motivates all of they claims about occupation, oppression, etc.. And if Israel is guilt of keeping them there, so is every Muslim state that also refuses to let then leave, like Egypt is currently doing. I don't hear you whining about how Egypt is treating Palestinians. While Israel has been providing Gaza with free power for years.

With the Palestinian Authority unwilling to pay for electricity in the Gaza Strip, Israel has become solely responsible for providing electricity to Gaza free of charge. May 26, 2017

Quote:Having a wall is dehumanising and disrespectful, as it means on either side people plot, dream or have nightmares about what to expect on the otherside. The Israeli's likely see the other side of that wall being nothing but terrorists, and the Palestinians just see a Zionist police state. Neither sees themselves for who they are while there is a wall in the way.

How is it "dehumanizing" for a sovereign state to protect its own borders?
You cannot just let the terrorists in and hope they don't kill you. If you think they should, then you should start taking homeless into your own home without any process for vetting them. See how that turns out. Best case, you get robbed. Worst case, some drug-addled person hurts or kills you. And that's assuming they don't already harbor a genocidal hatred against you.

Man, you live in la la land.

Quote:The problem is that integrating both Palestinians and Israeli's to play nice with each other in the same country after all the horrible shit they've done to each other isn't going to be easy (especially for those that have suffered losses). That being said, that is what those that survive and come out the other end need to concentrate on, how and where to go from here and how not to just get stuck in the same repetative cycle of death and destruction.

Israel hasn't done anything except in response to violence. You have no morals if you equate the victims and perpetrators. The first thing that would need to happen is for Palestinians to accept that all of their suffering has come at the hands of their own. But hateful people only blame external sources. They will never admit their own culpability in electing Hamas, and thus never get rid of the terrorist supporting/harboring in their on land.

Quit being a sympathetic dupe, fooled into making excuses for genocidal hatred.

(Oct 29, 2023 12:46 PM)Syne Wrote: Quit being a sympathetic dupe, fooled into making excuses for genocidal hatred.

Talk about a boomerang statement. Who were you aiming for?

(Oct 29, 2023 03:37 PM)stryder Wrote:

(Oct 29, 2023 12:46 PM)Syne Wrote: Quit being a sympathetic dupe, fooled into making excuses for genocidal hatred.

Talk about a boomerang statement. Who were you aiming for?

If you were aware of all the facts, you wouldn't try that nonsense.
I would have thought that some I just gave you would have been brand new to you, and worth looking into....the way you talk.

But I'll bite. How is Israel genocidal or display actual hatred? By protecting themselves? It's immoral to blame the victim. Don't you know that?

(Oct 29, 2023 04:15 PM)Syne Wrote:

(Oct 29, 2023 03:37 PM)stryder Wrote:

(Oct 29, 2023 12:46 PM)Syne Wrote: Quit being a sympathetic dupe, fooled into making excuses for genocidal hatred.

Talk about a boomerang statement. Who were you aiming for?

If you were aware of all the facts, you wouldn't try that nonsense.
I would have thought that some I just gave you would have been brand new to you, and worth looking into....the way you talk.

But I'll bite. How is Israel genocidal or display actual hatred? By protecting themselves? It's immoral to blame the victim. Don't you know that?

You understand one of the problems with the internet now adays is that information is at peoples fingertips. Such as information about a countries past. When you look at the inception of Israeli colonies within Palestine, over the years it spreads from being a rash (how the colonies are dotted) to a cancer devouring the host country. It might sound harsh that I'm saying it like this, but that is what the countries neighbouring likely see Israel as having been, and likely what they feared happening to themselves.

Youngsters obviously query why their country has ended up in the state it is and overall its why some have got it in their head that they want to reinstate the old country (thus the various by them wanting to rid the land of the Jewish population). It's likely a long term goal for some, which is why there are so many Palestinian clusters in other countries growing in numbers likely intending to eventually return.

That means literally in the long term the bloodshed won't just stop overnight from removing Hamas because while their perspective that Israel is a cancer on their land, Israel will likely never see peace.

That is also why they need to literally game change the whole prospect of this potential future, Israel has got to start thinking about trying to win them round to sharing the territory and less intent on irradication, otherwise it will just be generations upon generations willing to fight/disrupt/dispute continuously.

There is no simple solution, however Palestine/Israel is a "Splitting the baby" conundrum.

(Oct 29, 2023 04:45 PM)stryder Wrote: You understand one of the problems with the internet now adays is that information is at peoples fingertips.  Such as information about a countries past.  When you look at the inception of Israeli colonies within Palestine, over the years it spreads from being a rash (how the colonies are dotted) to a cancer devouring the host country.  It might sound harsh that I'm saying it like this, but that is what the countries neighbouring likely see Israel as having been, and likely what they feared happening to themselves.

Youngsters obviously query why their country has ended up in the state it is and overall its why some have got it in their head that they want to reinstate the old country (thus the various by them wanting to rid the land of the Jewish population).  It's likely a long term goal for some, which is why there are so many Palestinian clusters in other countries growing in numbers likely intending to eventually return.

That means literally in the long term the bloodshed won't just stop overnight from removing Hamas because while their perspective that Israel is a cancer on their land, Israel will likely never see peace.

That is also why they need to literally game change the whole prospect of this potential future, Israel has got to start thinking about trying to win them round to sharing the territory and less intent on irradication, otherwise it will just be generations upon generations willing to fight/disrupt/dispute continuously.

There is no simple solution, however Palestine/Israel is a "Splitting the baby" conundrum.

You're betraying your ignorance again. Until 1994 and the establishment of the Palestinian Authority/State, there has never been a Palestinian state. Prior to that Palestine was just a geographical region in the Southern Levant region. Israelis have always occupied that area. The Canaanites (a culture largely overlapping with Israelites) were there in 2000 BC, and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah were established in the late Bronze and early Iron ages. The only doubt in ownership is the history of countries occupying Israel, not vice-versa. It was a vassal of Egypt, then conquered by Assyria, Babylon, & Persia. But there was a century of Jewish independence before being taken by the expanding Roman Empire. As a result of Jewish revolts against Roman, many were killed or became refugees or slaves. After a lot of wars in the region, Britain gained control of the area after WWI, with the intent of reestablishing a Jewish state.

All of this is readily available online, if you could be bothered to question the propaganda you've imbibed.

Again, Palestine was only a geographical region. So saying "Israeli colonies within Palestine" is the same as saying the state of Texas in the continental US. It doesn't imply any "occupation" or "colonization" at all. You've been duped with simple equivocation. Propagandists failing to tell you that Palestine was only a region, not a country or sovereignty of any kind. There was no "host country." You're simply parroting anti-Semitic propaganda

Israel expanded only due to being attacked, by genocidal Muslim neighbors. And every time, Israel did the prudent thing, and took more of the invader's territory as a buffer against future invasions. Israel eventually even gave back some territory. No colony takes over a region by being attacked. Again, claiming so is blaming the victim.

The neighboring countries see Jews, themselves, as the cancer, but only because they have repeatedly called for the genocide of Jews. It's the same sort of language Hitler used and the reason Muslims were allies with him. Do you like the notion of parroting Hitler?

Israel has never been aggressive to neighbors, aside from those that attacked first.

There was no "old country" for Palestinians to "reinstate." You've swallowed all the anti-Semitic propaganda wholesale. Arab diaspora out of the Palestinian region didn't begin until the mid-19th century, having nothing to do with Israel. Refugees then fled the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, which began by surrounding Arab nations attacking Israel after it declared independence. That's how the Arabs lost the area in Israel originally designated for Arabs by the UN. But even then, Jordan had the West Bank and Egypt had the Gaza Strip.

Like you, youngsters believe the propaganda they're raised in. Being raised by the genocidal, or in a culture of antisemitism, you have little defense against the surrounding hatreds.
Even the countries with existing Palestinian populations don't want more, because they admit that they would be a radicalized and destabilizing influence. If anything, those Arab host countries likely want to get rid of them more than they want to leave. The probably live better where they are than in terrorist-run Gaza.

Just accepting that Israel will never see peace is tacit acceptance of anti-Semitic genocidal hate. You can never reason with genocidal hatred. So wishful thinking about Israel accommodating them is naive ignorance. Just like those morons who thought they could appease Hitler. Those who do not know accurate history are doom to repeat it. Probably why Jews say "never forget."

Troubling reports are coming out of the Russian "Autonomous Republic" of Dagestan, located just north of the Caucusus mountains along the west shore of the Caspian sea. Dagestan is a largely Muslim region (83%), poorly controlled by Moscow. (Dagestan is 9% 'spiritual but not religious', 2.4% Russian Orthodox, 2% atheist and 2% practice folk religion, plus an assortment of smaller groups.)

Well, rumors appeared to have swept the Republic's capital that an Israeli plane was due to land at the local airport. So mobs of rioters took over the airport in hopes of "killing Jews". When no Israeli plane arrived, mobs started going hotel to hotel, in search of Jews to kill. This is continuing as I write this.

It's unknown whether any Jews or suspected-Jews have actually been killed. (In Soviet times several thousand Jews lived there, but as Islamic militancy increased in recent years most left, many moving to Israel. There may be a few hundred left.) It's unknown whether foreigners have been attacked. (I doubt that many Americans, Canadians or Europeans are in Dagestan.) Video shows local police just standing by and watching. (The police are mostly locals and report to the 'autonomous republic's' Muslim government, they aren't ethnic Russians controlled by Moscow.)

By all accounts an old-style anti-Jewish pogrom is underway in this remote place.