Girls Are More Engaged When “Doing Science” Rather Than “Being Scientists”

#1
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/new...ement.html

INTRO: Asking young girls to “do science” leads them to show greater persistence in science activities than does asking them to “be scientists,” researchers at New York University and Princeton University find. The study results are published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science.

“Describing science as actions, by saying ‘let’s do science,’ leads to more science engagement than does describing science in terms of identities, by asking them to ‘be scientists,’” explains Marjorie Rhodes, an associate professor in NYU’s Department of Psychology and the senior author of the study. “These effects particularly hold for children who are the target of stereotypes suggesting that they might not be the kind of person who succeeds in science—in this case, girls,” she adds.

These findings suggest that efforts encouraging girls to enter science—a field in which they are underrepresented—might benefit from focusing on describing the activity of doing science rather than on encouraging children to adopt scientist identities, at least in early childhood. “The roots of gender disparities in science achievement take hold in early childhood,” Rhodes observes. “This research identifies an element of children’s environments that could be targeted to reduce early gender differences in science behavior among young children.”

MORE: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/new...ement.html
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#2
I see no test to distinguish between "cultural stereotypes" and just the difference between boys and girls.
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#3
(Feb 6, 2019 07:21 PM)C C Wrote: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/new...ement.html

INTRO: Asking young girls to “do science” leads them to show greater persistence in science activities than does asking them to “be scientists,” researchers at New York University and Princeton University find. The study results are published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science.

“Describing science as actions, by saying ‘let’s do science,’ leads to more science engagement than does describing science in terms of identities, by asking them to ‘be scientists,’” explains Marjorie Rhodes, an associate professor in NYU’s Department of Psychology and the senior author of the study. “These effects particularly hold for children who are the target of stereotypes suggesting that they might not be the kind of person who succeeds in science—in this case, girls,” she adds.

These findings suggest that efforts encouraging girls to enter science—a field in which they are underrepresented—might benefit from focusing on describing the activity of doing science rather than on encouraging children to adopt scientist identities, at least in early childhood. “The roots of gender disparities in science achievement take hold in early childhood,” Rhodes observes. “This research identifies an element of children’s environments that could be targeted to reduce early gender differences in science behavior among young children.”

MORE: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/new...ement.html

Quote:by asking them to ‘be scientists,’”

comparatively i think it is like telling children they should aspire to be "tax payers"


most Americans would argue the point should be made to tell the kids they should aspire to be a good part of their community.
the child asks "what is that?" and the parent takes them out on community projects and shows them.
planting trees, helping clean up parks, joining native animal and plant protection society's... etc

what hope is there for the majority culture of children raised in concrete jungles who have no money to get out and live and experience nature on a regular basis  ?
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#4
(Feb 7, 2019 11:43 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: what hope is there for the majority culture of children raised in concrete jungles who have no money to get out and live and experience nature on a regular basis  ?


Don't even see the cosmos at night (certainly in full glory, anyway) unless electricity goes out over most of the city.

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#5
Can we turn this about? Why do girls gravitate towards the things girls gravitate towards? Wouldn't this give a better insight into girl behaviour than randomly trying 'doing', 'being' and so on?
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#6
(Feb 7, 2019 09:21 PM)confused2 Wrote: Can we turn this about? Why do girls gravitate towards the things girls gravitate towards? Wouldn't this give a better insight into girl behaviour than randomly trying 'doing', 'being' and so on?

Well, that would require academics to acknowledge the inherent differences between girls and boys. No very likely nowadays.
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#7
Syne Wrote:Well, that would require academics to acknowledge the inherent differences between girls and boys. No very likely nowadays.
For that very reason I was thinking representatives of the species might be able to give better answers.
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#8
(Feb 7, 2019 10:23 PM)confused2 Wrote:
Syne Wrote:Well, that would require academics to acknowledge the inherent differences between girls and boys. No very likely nowadays.
For that very reason I was thinking representatives of the species might be able to give better answers.

Or just some intellectually honest scientists who have read the studies, on young children and even monkeys, that show that females are interested in people while males are interested in things. Basic evolutionary psychology.
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#9
(Feb 7, 2019 10:23 PM)confused2 Wrote:
Syne Wrote:Well, that would require academics to acknowledge the inherent differences between girls and boys. No very likely nowadays.
For that very reason I was thinking representatives of the species might be able to give better answers.


Denise Cummins points out that alternative preferences of women (regardless of whether native tendencies or social conditioning products) are ironically being indirectly disparaged by these campaigns. "The hidden assumption underlying the push to eliminate gender gaps in traditionally male-dominated fields is that such fields are intrinsically more important and more valuable to society than fields that traditionally appeal to women."

Perhaps awkwardly analogous in spirit to the desire to convert male entertainment protagonists to female (Dr Who, James Bond, etc) as if gender makeovers are the only way to have such be successful (to have heroines standing on existing popular male shoulders).

In addition she proposes that STEM imbalance is a myth to a significant extent, as well some causes/truths (whatever) publicly bandied about just being armchair theorizing undergirding pre-existing propaganda.

Why the STEM gender gap is overblown
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/mak...em-careers

EXCERPT: There are two universally accepted “truths” about women and STEM careers (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics). The first is that men outnumber women in in these fields, and the second is that women are socialized to avoid STEM as career choices, because society considers them “unfeminine.”

These beliefs have spawned a national effort on the part of the National Science Foundation to attract girls and young women into STEM. The preferred strategy is to attract females by “unbrainwashing them” into accepting STEM careers as appropriate for women.

On closer inspection, it turns out that these “truths” are nothing more than assumptions, and that these assumptions are inconsistent with the facts. Here are the facts:

1. Men do not outnumber women in all STEM fields [...]

2. Women and men are equally capable of doing STEM work [...]

3. Sex-linked interest preferences are not mere artifacts of socialization [...]

4. Different preferences don’t mean women’s are less important [...]

5. Men earn more because they believe they are worth more—and women agree [undervalue themselves due to cultural conditioning?] ...

The bottom line

Women are clearly capable of doing well in STEM fields traditionally dominated by men, and they should not be hindered, bullied, or shamed for pursuing careers in such fields. But we also should not be ashamed if our interests differ from men’s. If we find certain careers more intrinsically rewarding than men do, that does not mean we have been brainwashed by society or herded into menial fields of labor. Instead, we should demand that greater intrinsic and monetary compensation be awarded to the work we like and want to do.


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Are there studies actually interested in asking at the particular level as opposed to further bulwarking the popular generalizations of "experts"? The second offering below apparently did seek personal reasons, but after the fact of women acquiring a STEM career, in terms of departure rates from engineering disciplines.

Women’s Reasons for Leaving the Engineering Field
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5491652/

EXCERPT: Among the different Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math fields, engineering continues to have one of the highest rates of attrition (Hewlett et al., 2008). The turnover rate for women engineers from engineering fields is even higher than for men (Frehill, 2010). Despite increased efforts from researchers, there are still large gaps in our understanding of the reasons that women leave engineering. This study aims to address this gap by examining the reasons why women leave engineering. Specifically, we analyze the reasons for departure given by national sample of 1,464 women engineers who left the profession after having worked in the engineering field. [...]

Our results revealed the top three sets of reasons underlying women’s decision to leave the jobs and engineering field were related to: first, poor and/or inequitable compensation, poor working conditions, inflexible and demanding work environment that made work-family balance difficult; second, unmet achievement needs that reflected a dissatisfaction with effective utilization of their math and science skills, and third, unmet needs with regard to lack of recognition at work and adequate opportunities for advancement. Implications of these results for future research as well as the design of effective intervention programs aimed at women engineers’ retention and engagement in engineering are discussed.


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The third focuses on the more fashionable discrimination and misconduct statistics wave as either "description of what's going on" or potential part explanation of "why one might avoid jobs in _X_ industries". (General or abstract numbers inspection after the fact of working in STEM.)

Women and Men in STEM Often at Odds Over Workplace Equity
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/01/0...ce-equity/

INTRO: For women working in science, technology, engineering or math (STEM) jobs, the workplace is a different, sometimes more hostile environment than the one their male coworkers experience. Discrimination and sexual harassment are seen as more frequent, and gender is perceived as more of an impediment than an advantage to career success. Three groups of women in STEM jobs stand out as more likely to see workplace inequities: women employed in STEM settings where men outnumber women, women working in computer jobs (only some of whom work in the technology industry), and women in STEM who hold postgraduate degrees. Indeed, a majority of each of these groups of STEM women have experienced gender discrimination at work, according to a nationally representative Pew Research Center survey with an oversample of people working in STEM jobs.

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#10
(Feb 8, 2019 01:47 AM)C C Wrote: [quote pid='26660' dateline='1549574618']
But we also should not be ashamed if our interests differ from men’s.

like sitting in on gay men talk about gay sex.

meanwhile gender stereo typed hetros use their children like dress-up dolls making them kiss and go on pretend dates with each other and call it natural.

the professional occupation and sports issues are still there.

millennial's are the 1st generation to normalise equality and still in the life time of those who lived under racial segregation laws.
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