Fearmongering ad by the NRA

(Mar 10, 2018 07:49 AM)Syne Wrote:

(Mar 10, 2018 05:00 AM)Leigha Wrote: Exactly, MR. Jesus seemed more like a pacifist, not a warrior, so it just seems a bit contradictory to cling to a Bible, and cling to a gun. I believe everyone should be permitted to self defend, but the NRA just seems to go way over board with how they perceive and define that ''right.''

Jesus also said, "if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one". So the only contradiction is making proclamations about the Bible while being uninformed.
What should I be allowed to do to restrict your ability to defend your own life? What about the lives of your family?

No one is saying that the right to bear arms be restricted or banned. The NRA has a problem it seems however, with putting some safety precautions into place so psychopaths can't get their hands on guns, etc. Why is that? Doesn't sound like it has to do with self defense, it rather has to do with perhaps capitalism, greed, and paranoia.

(Mar 11, 2018 04:31 AM)Leigha Wrote:

(Mar 10, 2018 07:49 AM)Syne Wrote: Jesus also said, "if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one". So the only contradiction is making proclamations about the Bible while being uninformed.
What should I be allowed to do to restrict your ability to defend your own life? What about the lives of your family?

No one is saying that the right to bear arms be restricted or banned. The NRA has a problem it seems however, with putting some safety precautions into place so psychopaths can't get their hands on guns, etc. Why is that? Doesn't sound like it has to do with self defense, it rather has to do with perhaps capitalism, greed, and paranoia.

Those precautions are already in place, but government bureaucracy dropped the ball over and over. The Broward county sheriff's office failed to act at least 20 or 30 times, that same sheriff went along with Obama's plan to supposedly stop the school-to-prison pipeline, by refusing to charge students who committed actual crimes, and the FBI admits to not following protocol on the two warnings it received. If any of these hadn't failed, Parkland could have been avoided...under existing laws.

No proposed laws will stop any killer if they are not effectively enforced by the people trusted to protect us.

But people who just want to demonize the NRA, which is just an organization of gun owners, want to ignore these facts. Easier to blame some organization you're not interested in rather than face the failures of big government and leftist policies. Face reality or don't. It's your choice. Easy target, being cynically spoon fed to you by the media through sympathetic kids, or the truth.

"One of the most interesting aspects of all is how an association for sportsmen became the prime defenders of assault weaponry.

In its early days, the National Rifle Association was a grassroots social club that prided itself on independence from corporate influence.

While that is still part of the organization's core function, today less than half of the NRA's revenues come from program fees and membership dues.

The bulk of the group's money now comes in the form of contributions, grants, royalty income, and advertising, much of it originating from gun industry sources.

Since 2005, the gun industry and its corporate allies have given between $20 million and $52.6 million to it through the NRA Ring of Freedom sponsor program. Donors include firearm companies like Midway USA, Springfield Armory Inc, Pierce Bullet Seal Target Systems, and Beretta USA Corporation. Other supporters from the gun industry include Cabala's, Sturm Rugar & Co, and Smith & Wesson.

The NRA also made $20.9 million — about 10 percent of its revenue — from selling advertising to industry companies marketing products in its many publications in 2010, according to the IRS Form 990.

Additionally, some companies donate portions of sales directly to the NRA. Crimson Trace, which makes laser sights, donates 10 percent of each sale to the NRA. Taurus buys an NRA membership for everyone who buys one of their guns. Sturm Rugar gives $1 to the NRA for each gun sold, which amounts to millions. The NRA's revenues are intrinsically linked to the success of the gun business.

The NRA Foundation also collects hundreds of thousands of dollars from the industry, which it then gives to local-level organizations for training and equipment purchases.

This shift is key to understanding why a coalition of hunters, collectors and firearm enthusiasts takes the heat for incidents of gun violence, like the shooting massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, rather than the companies that manufacture and market assault weapons.

The chief trade association for gun manufacturers is the National Shooting Sports Federation, which is, incidentally, located in Newtown, Conn. But the NRA takes front and center after each and every shooting.

"Today's NRA is a virtual subsidiary of the gun industry," said Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center. "While the NRA portrays itself as protecting the 'freedom' of individual gun owners, it's actually working to protect the freedom of the gun industry to manufacture and sell virtually any weapon or accessory."----- http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-indus...nra-2013-1

Leftist nonsense. Guns don't murder people, nor do their manufacturers. Just leftists demonizing inanimate objects.

(Mar 11, 2018 07:48 AM)Syne Wrote: Leftist nonsense. Guns don't murder people, nor do their manufacturers. Just leftists demonizing inanimate objects.

Just follow the money..

(Mar 11, 2018 07:49 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:

(Mar 11, 2018 07:48 AM)Syne Wrote: Leftist nonsense. Guns don't murder people, nor do their manufacturers. Just leftists demonizing inanimate objects.

Follow the money..

This is why it's always a circular argument.  It's Ethos vs. Ethics.

Most of the arguments I've seen seem to come down to the same statements that nobody wants to admit responsibility because if someone does they'll get it all dumped on them.

So why not "Split the baby".  (Judgment of Solomon (wikipedia.org))

The reality is there is a problem and the only solution is "compromise", since no singular decision is going to be wanted by anyone. The NRA isn't going to want gun controls tightened, the manufacturers aren't going to want to have to fit the bill, people that play computer games don't want to have to constantly look over their shoulder waiting for some insecure police officer under a presidents sway to want to shoot them for getting a top score.

Where are the real problems... well there's a lot of focus on the Mental health state of those that commit such attacks, however again the problem is that people don't seem to realise that a mental health affliction isn't a cause it's actually a symptom. You'll find in most cases those that suffer a "mental break" only do so because of others. It could be mistreatment by family members, it could be bullying by those at school, it could be racially motivated where they've been victimised because of their skin colour or religion, it could be down to a boss mistreating them. It could be one or many of those things, by everyone, and I mean everyone has a point where they will snap... it's just the question of how they snap and what could have been done to prevent it ever getting to that point.

It's not as simple as saying "some people are just born evil", some are unfortunately forged in the fires of obscurity and being alone dealing with such events is why they can become monsters.

The only things that keep us from going that way however is "nurture". We learn from out parents and siblings, we attempt to learn from our peers. It's not just the basics of human interaction, but the basis for not just knowing what empathy is but actually "feeling" what empathy is.

It's easier for some than others, women are more likely to be empathetic because of the capacity to have children. Women usually spend more time with their offspring than their male counterpart. There are rare cases where a woman might not feel for their child (bond) this can either be done to postnatal depression or anxieties (or maybe the history of how they came to term).
The point I'm making here is that a child when they are brought up learns about the world, not just by themselves but by those that care about them and support them. You'll find in adult life at the most obscure of times we might concern ourselves with how those that we have grown to care about think of us, what they might suggest to or not to do in certain occasions (even though they aren't physically there)

In essence it's the suggestion that we are part a conscience to ourselves and are partially made by attempting to take all the best bits from those that we care to. (they could be family or friends, or we can pull from literature, music, film or games. How many times have you caught yourself quoting a line during so activity or event?)

So how to fix the problem?
I considered this when Donald 'I blame games' Trump had a meeting about blaming games. Computer games aren't the problem, parents allowing certain games (that are meant for an adult audience) and not communicating/interacting with their kids however is more likely. While the games industry isn't at fault in any way, it could still do something (even though it doesn't have to) just to prove that they aren't as cowardly as other people shirking responsibility.

what would need to be done is the creation of "Infomercials" (yeah I know, more crap to interrupt you viewing... go figure.) Creating a bunch of commercials spread across multiple mediums where heroes/anti-hero's of certain games would be visibly doing what they usually do, but then part way through doing what it is they are doing they slow down and stop (say mid throttling a Nazi) and start discussing the fine point of existence, the difference between the world they are trapped in and the one outside. After a little existential enlightenment, they go straight back to garotting that Nazi. The sort of places such advertisement could be put is TV, radio, cinemas, Streaming sites and social media.

The idea is that the existential enlightenment component is the point where the seed of ethical consideration is planted, not through force, not through brain washing, just through the captivation of attention and a moment of thought.

I'd suggest similar Informercials in regards to ethical Gun control (talking about putting in locked cabinets, not leaving them places they shouldn't be left, explaining to parents how to talk to their kids into being sensible with such things since once you've fired a bullet from a gun you can't take it back until it's reached it's destination.

Obviously this is a soft approach, it doesn't force legislation changes, it doesn't put extra rules into force, it doesn't make anyone the villain, it just tries to get people to "smarten up" in regards to how to deal with life in general.

(Mar 11, 2018 07:49 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:

(Mar 11, 2018 07:48 AM)Syne Wrote: Leftist nonsense. Guns don't murder people, nor do their manufacturers. Just leftists demonizing inanimate objects.

Just follow the money..

No killers are funded by the NRA.

(Mar 11, 2018 06:43 AM)Syne Wrote:

(Mar 11, 2018 04:31 AM)Leigha Wrote:

(Mar 10, 2018 07:49 AM)Syne Wrote: Jesus also said, "if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one". So the only contradiction is making proclamations about the Bible while being uninformed.
What should I be allowed to do to restrict your ability to defend your own life? What about the lives of your family?

No one is saying that the right to bear arms be restricted or banned. The NRA has a problem it seems however, with putting some safety precautions into place so psychopaths can't get their hands on guns, etc. Why is that? Doesn't sound like it has to do with self defense, it rather has to do with perhaps capitalism, greed, and paranoia.

Those precautions are already in place, but government bureaucracy dropped the ball over and over. The Broward county sheriff's office failed to act at least 20 or 30 times, that same sheriff went along with Obama's plan to supposedly stop the school-to-prison pipeline, by refusing to charge students who committed actual crimes, and the FBI admits to not following protocol on the two warnings it received. If any of these hadn't failed, Parkland could have been avoided...under existing laws.

No proposed laws will stop any killer if they are not effectively enforced by the people trusted to protect us.

But people who just want to demonize the NRA, which is just an organization of gun owners, want to ignore these facts. Easier to blame some organization you're not interested in rather than face the failures of big government and leftist policies. Face reality or don't. It's your choice. Easy target, being cynically spoon fed to you by the media through sympathetic kids, or the truth.

I agree, and I'm not demonizing the NRA. In this latest school shooting in Florida, it's clear that many dropped the ball, and the shooter should never have even had the opportunity to enter that school. I've stated that earlier in the thread, but the NRA does appear to be more concerned with its own self interests, whenever these situations spring up in the media. They don't seem to have much compassion, rather, they seem concerned over how this will affect gun laws, and their organization. I don't derive that opinion from the media, I've simply observed NRA members that have been interviewed after mass shootings.

(Mar 12, 2018 02:44 AM)Leigha Wrote: I agree, and I'm not demonizing the NRA. In this latest school shooting in Florida, it's clear that many dropped the ball, and the shooter should never have even had the opportunity to enter that school. I've stated that earlier in the thread, but the NRA does appear to be more concerned with its own self interests, whenever these situations spring up in the media. They don't seem to have much compassion, rather, they seem concerned over how this will affect gun laws, and their organization. I don't derive that opinion from the media, I've simply observed NRA members that have been interviewed after mass shootings.

Why would the NRA give up its own interests (those of its paying members) when enforcing current law would have stopped the Parkland shooting and none of the proposed laws would have stopped the Vegas shooter, where he was also prepared to use bombs?

Leftists equate compassion with "agreement on policy". That is a biased an distorted view of compassion. If every mass shooting were not immediately politicized by the left and its media to push gun control, NRA members would have some breathing room to show compassion. But then, the media aren't interested in giving them a platform for such sentiment either. Nor accepting anything but gun control efforts as compassion...including "thought and prayers", more security at schools, allowing teachers to carry, etc..

Ask yourself this. Do you watch any right-leaning media (especially outside of Fox News)? Do you think you're getting the whole picture if you don't?

Here's another fearmongering ad by the NRA threatening the mainstream media, Hollywood actors, sports figures, late night comedians, and other ambiguous conspirators with....well...uhh....with an hourglass I guess. Maybe she thinks she's the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QtEz7NxDs8