Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

Can you guys just cool it for one cotton picking moment?
Maybe I'm being gaslighted but..
'Make America Great' is totally inclusive for all those who think of themselves as Americans. In Europe nationalism has connotations of Aryan supremacy - it may (or may not) be the same thing in America - from interactions with Syne my impression is that he views it as totally inclusive.

Historically the NRA (the US had a civil war) armed freed slaves and gave them the abilty to defend themselves against the KKK (gaslighting?). The current headlines may be mostly about white trash with guns but that may be an unintended consequence of 'the right to defend yourself' - I honestly don't know where the truth lies on this.

I'm not saying I'm sure of any of this.

It’s not political. I’m a republican. Always have been.

Don’t worry, C2, it’s always T-time.

(Dec 18, 2021 08:44 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Everything that happens has a cause. That's the whole point of determinism. That means that every misfortune does have an identifiable cause, whether it is due to anyone's actions or not.

Yeah, dividing up the universe into moments is a human construction.

My future comment is just as fixed as my past comments. Hence, I do not move freely.

So, whose fault, was it, Syne? The so-called illegal alien killer or the fathers?

(Dec 19, 2021 01:41 AM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]Can you guys just cool it for one cotton picking moment?
Maybe I'm being gaslighted but..
'Make America Great' is totally inclusive for all those who think of themselves as Americans. In Europe nationalism has connotations of Aryan supremacy - it may (or may not) be the same thing in America - from interactions with Syne my impression is that he views it as totally inclusive.
 
Historically the NRA (the US had a civil war) armed freed slaves and gave them the abilty to defend themselves against the KKK (gaslighting?). The current headlines may be mostly about white trash with guns but that may be an unintended consequence of 'the right to defend yourself' - I honestly don't know where the truth lies on this.

I'm not saying I'm sure of any of this.

The Democrats and their leftist allies in the media have been gaslighting the American public (and world, apparently) for decades. Trump's "Make America Great Again" brought historically low minority unemployment (read prosperity). Nationalism, itself, has no racist connotation. Nationalism is just "identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations." That does include everyone in a nation. The left, in the US and Europe, have an interest in undermining support in individual nations in order to gain multinational power, as in the EU, UN, etc.. So they paint nationalism as a bad thing.

I just recently read that leftists in blue states, where the crime rate has reached historic levels due to Democrat "defund the police" efforts and soft on crime policies, are buying guns in record numbers. My first thought was "good, more people to support the Second Amendment." I had the exact same reaction to gays buying guns after the Pulse nightclub shooting, blacks in high crime neighborhoods, or SS not feeling safe out by herself at night.

The legacy media just avoids covering the mass shootings by avowed leftists or blacks. Just doesn't fit their propaganda narrative.
But then, you may not have any reason to believe me either, other than looking up facts for yourself, like the history of the NRA or the Republican party being explicitly founded to end slavery.

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(Dec 19, 2021 02:09 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not political. I’m a republican. Always have been.

Except on abortion, religious freedom, morality,...

Quote:

(Dec 18, 2021 08:44 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Everything that happens has a cause. That's the whole point of determinism. That means that every misfortune does have an identifiable cause, whether it is due to anyone's actions or not.

Yeah, dividing up the universe into moments is a human construction.

More of you trying to absolve yourself of something.

Quote:My future comment is just as fixed as my past comments. Hence, I do not move freely.

Believe it or not, that's a choice you are making. No choice is still a choice.

Quote:So, whose fault, was it, Syne? The so-called illegal alien killer or the fathers?

I've already been very clear. If she swerved off the road to hit the leaves, it's primarily her fault (with some blame to the father, depending on how close to a busy road he left unattended children). If it was in the road, it's largely the father's fault.
How you've failed to grasp that from my previous posts is anyone's guess.

If it had been hedgehogs that got killed under the leaves I think we'd have agreed it was the hedgehogs fault - or at least bad luck. I'm now going with the possibility that the children made a bad decision which could not have been foreseen and no other party can or should be blamed. I get the impression the boy was sent to prison for attempting to conceal a crime and in the absence of a crime to conceal this seems a little harsh but there it is. I am in favour of engineering moral dilemmas which might have some basis in reality but which don't involve little girls we (now) know the names of.

(Dec 19, 2021 03:40 PM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]If it had been hedgehogs that got killed under the leaves I think we'd have agreed it was the hedgehogs fault - or at least bad luck. I'm now going with the possibility that the children made a bad decision which could not have been foreseen and no other party can or should be blamed. I get the impression the boy was sent to prison for attempting to conceal a crime and in the absence of a crime to conceal this seems a little harsh but there it is. I am in favour of engineering moral dilemmas which might have some basis in reality but which don't involve little girls we (now) know the names of.

Agreed. Good job, C2! 

During this discussion, C C has peaked my curiosity regarding time and free will. I've been reading up on the Einstein's and Henri Bergson's public and private debates. When I finish, I might need your help. There's a lot of Alice and Bob tropes.

Happy Holidays!

The only reason Syne believes in freewill is so he can blame people for their own misfortunes. He delights in making every ill one experiences a flaw or a weakness in one's character, contemptuously projecting all the faults he denies in himself onto complete strangers.

Judgmentalism is about comparing yourself to others, but when you do this, you let other people set your standards. When you’re constantly rating yourself at other people’s expense, you get a temporary confidence boost. It’s like a drug and we all do it to some degree.

(Dec 19, 2021 03:40 PM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]If it had been hedgehogs that got killed under the leaves I think we'd have agreed it was the hedgehogs fault - or at least bad luck. I'm now going with the possibility that the children made a bad decision which could not have been foreseen and no other party can or should be blamed. I get the impression the boy was sent to prison for attempting to conceal a crime and in the absence of a crime to conceal this seems a little harsh but there it is. I am in favour of engineering moral dilemmas which might have some basis in reality but which don't involve little girls we (now) know the names of.

If they were your pet hedgehogs, that you'd tacitly agreed to be responsible for, it would be your fault. If they were wild animals, no one has any expectation of being responsible for, no one would be to blame. Blaming the children is literally blaming the victims, who society agrees cannot be held accountable for their own actions. If you can't foresee children wanting to hide in a pile a leaves, you haven't been around children much (or simply remember being one). The boyfriend likely had a public defender and plead guilty.

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(Dec 19, 2021 06:30 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]The only reason Syne believes in freewill is so he can blame people for their own misfortunes. He delights in making every ill one experiences a flaw or a weakness in one's character, contemptuously projecting all the faults he denies in himself onto complete strangers.

(Dec 19, 2021 10:50 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]Judgmentalism is about comparing yourself to others, but when you do this, you let other people set your standards. When you’re constantly rating yourself at other people’s expense, you get a temporary confidence boost. It’s like a drug and we all do it to some degree.

You both have basic human psychology backwards. People don't judge others for no reason. For example, both of you infer bad motives because you believe you'd have to be bad people to judge others...while you hypocritically pass judgement on me. MR believes such judgement only occurs as projection, and SS believes that such judgement is an ego boost.

The truth is that all people, including SS, MR, and myself, judge others by the same standards they judge themselves, demonstrated in the above judgements. MR thinks any judgement from him would be projecting his own flaws, as he projects his motive on me. If I did what the father did (or driver if not in the road), it would have been due to a flaw or character weakness of mine. SS thinks she'd get an ego boost from being judgemental, just as she gets one by judging me. I know that if my own children died because I left them in the road, it would be my fault. I hold myself to the exact same standard I apply to others. Having standards you apply to everyone equally isn't letting others "set your standards." But you'd have to have standards to understand that.

So while I hold myself to a high level of accountability, which I apply to others, MR only projects his denied flaws on others, and SS seeks an ego boost.

Don't like the mirror? Quit looking.

Everyone has their own interpretations of Nietzsche’s quote, "Whoever battles monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself. And when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you," but my own interpretation is that when you’re creating your own values, you should be careful to not superimpose them onto others, lest you become a monster yourself.

It’s a tricky little thing, and difficult to do, but I try.

Happy holidays, Syne.

Peace out.

(Dec 20, 2021 12:54 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone has their own interpretations of Nietzsche’s quote, "Whoever battles monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself. And when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you," but my own interpretation is that when you’re creating your own values, you should be careful to not superimpose them onto others, lest you become a monster yourself.

It’s a tricky little thing, and difficult to do, but I try.

That Nietzsche quote is about excusing any means of fighting evil, thereby using evil means and becoming evil yourself. And the abyss is inside everyone, looking into it is looking into yourself.

Trying not to superimpose your values on others is literally letting others "set your standards." Humans cannot hold others to lesser standards without doing so for themselves as well. You seem to be conflating "superimposing" and "imposing" your values on others. The former is simply applying the same standard, and the latter is enforcing it. Enforcement is what the law is for, not for individuals to enact.