Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

(Dec 16, 2021 06:58 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Dec 16, 2021 06:20 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not that I don’t have sympathy for one and not the others. I think that 110 years for an unintentional accident is excessive, and even the judge thought so.

You haven't been arguing for a reduced sentence. You've been arguing all the ways you think he was not at fault or trying to excuse his actions. That makes you a piece of shit. Just imagine the family of a victim coming across this thread and all your arguments.

I was arguing against freewill and the excessive sentence. Criminally negligent homicide is less than manslaughter, but he was found guilty of 27 counts, including four counts of vehicular homicide, six counts of assault in the first degree and 10 counts of attempt to commit assault in the first degree, some of which were subject to the sentencing rules.

And resorting to name calling shows that you don't have any integrity.

(Dec 16, 2021 07:11 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]

(Dec 16, 2021 06:58 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Dec 16, 2021 06:20 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not that I don’t have sympathy for one and not the others. I think that 110 years for an unintentional accident is excessive, and even the judge thought so.

You haven't been arguing for a reduced sentence. You've been arguing all the ways you think he was not at fault or trying to excuse his actions. That makes you a piece of shit. Just imagine the family of a victim coming across this thread and all your arguments.

I was arguing against freewill and the excessive sentence. Criminally negligent homicide is less than manslaughter, but he was found guilty of 27 counts, including four counts of vehicular homicide, six counts of assault in the first degree and 10 counts of attempt to commit assault in the first degree, some of which were subject to the sentencing rules.

And resorting to name calling shows that you don't have any integrity.

You only argued against free will in an attempt to absolve him of his responsibility. You actually argued that he didn't deserve any prison time at all:

(Dec 15, 2021 03:07 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]...much less think that he deserved to be sentenced to prison. Mistakes and accidents happen.

Go tell the victims' families that "mistakes and accidents happen." Starting to hear your callousness yet?

He was found guilty of four counts of vehicular homicide, because there was no way he didn't perceive the risk of a semi barreling down a steep grade at up to 100 mph. And he consciously disregarded that risk due to considerations about the truck, his job, fines, etc.. https://www.shouselaw.com/co/defense/law...-homicide/
He was found guilty of first-degree assault because he seriously hurt "someone while knowingly doing something that “creates a grave risk of death… under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life.” If vehicular homicide holds, so does first-degree assault with a deadly weapon. https://www.shouselaw.com/co/defense/law...st-degree/
After those, first-degree attempted assault, vehicular assault, reckless driving and careless driving are all a given.

Name calling doesn't speak to integrity, but your lying, about the Bible, that you ever said he was trying to keep from tipping over, that you were being facetious when you couldn't show where, that you had "copied" something I had said, all speaks to your lack of integrity. And you call people names on top of all that too:

(Nov 29, 2021 11:28 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]I said that anger can make you stupid, stupid.

(Nov 30, 2021 02:57 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]What a whiny little bitch.

So even by your own claim, you lack integrity. What an immoral cow.

That was the doctor, not the truck driver, err! Stop being an attention whore.

Back to anxiety…

This is a little strange coincidence.

While this driver is making a video [while driving, no doubt] about an interview that he saw with Bill Hader and Conan O'Brien on anxiety, he catches the semi-truck on camera.

He said that Jeff bridges told him a story and said, if there’s a point in your life when you’re not nervous that means you don’t care. Anxiety is your buddy. That’s where you get your creativity and passion. Next, he says, "anxiety is cured now. Thanks, Buger! You’re welcome." And then the semi-truck comes flying by.

(Dec 16, 2021 08:10 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]That was the doctor, not the truck driver, err! Stop being an attention whore.

As a direct analogy to the driver. You must think everyone here is a moron that doesn't realize that the only reason you'd bring up that doctor is to compare the two.

Again, you trying to weasel out of that speaks to your lack of integrity. And unlike needy, projecting women, I don't give a crap if I get anyone's attention. Either people respond and are worth engaging with, at least out of boredom, or they don't and I promptly forget about it.

(Dec 16, 2021 08:10 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ][...] While this driver is making a video [while driving, no doubt] about an interview that he saw with Bill Hader and Conan O'Brien on anxiety, he catches the semi-truck on camera.

He said that Jeff bridges told him a story and said, if there’s a point in your life when you’re not nervous that means you don’t care. Anxiety is your buddy. That’s where you get your creativity and passion. Next, he says, "anxiety is cured now. Thanks, Buger! You’re welcome." And then the semi-truck comes flying by.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmfKN3hT05c

That video exemplifies pervasively the scariest thing... All the growing social media commitments and mobile service activities that drivers are accommodating, engaging in, and distracted by while traveling. Millions of them in that situation versus the rare runaway truck scenario. (Hopefully the latter wasn't doing similar, to boot, to add to the list.)

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(Dec 16, 2021 06:20 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not that I don’t have sympathy for one and not the others. I think that 110 years for an unintentional accident is excessive, and even the judge thought so.

Good thing "Wrong Way" Roy's disorientation and poor decision didn't kill several people. The most famous blunder in sports history would have been prosecuted as a crime. Maybe some Golden Bears fans listening to the broadcast did suffer heart attacks, as well as those in the stadium.

Broadcaster Graham McNamee: "What am I seeing? What's wrong with me? Am I crazy? Am I crazy? Am I crazy?"

I can see Syne's point about there being people weeping in court. In the US it seems there are around 4,000 deaths and more than 100,000 injuries in truck crashes every year so an average of rather more than 12 people weeping in courts every day around the country. Maybe some truck related deaths are comparable to the 40,000 deaths caused by pointing a loaded gun at someone and pulling the trigger but I suspect most aren't.

As a minor point - if Syne could avoid using the term 'everyone' when expressing an opinion he might appear less deluded.

Going back to Aguilera-Mederos and the crash that seems to have become the subject of this thread..

Assuming what he said is true..
He did stop to ask for advice at the top of the slope. His brakes were already hot (smoking) when he stopped. Judging whether too hot or not would be a matter of experience - the experience he was about to get. If the advice he was given was wrong (or he ignored it) then even at the top of the slope the best outcome would be that he ended up in the runaway truck lane. For some combination of reasons which may (or may not) include lining up to take the next curve without flipping he missed the runaway truck lane. Some might say he's (metaphorically) flipped the safety catch off and is now pointing his loaded rifle at innocent people as he proceeds down the slope. There's a twist here which I have never seen (anywhere) mentioned - if he tried to change down to get engine braking and the speed regulator has shut down the throttle he wouldn't be able to crash into any gear and would freewheel the rest of the way down the slope. In terms of gun safety his best option might have been to turn the gun on himself and deliberately flip the truck. The UK Highway Code doesn't have a '..and now you kill yourself' section - maybe the US code does - I wouldn't know.

(Dec 17, 2021 01:49 AM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]I can see Syne's point about there being people weeping in court. In the US it seems there are around 4,000 deaths and more than 100,000 injuries in truck crashes every year so an average of rather more than 12 people weeping in courts every day around the country. Maybe some truck related deaths are comparable to the 40,000 deaths caused by pointing a loaded gun at someone and pulling the trigger but I suspect most aren't.

2/3 of that 40,000 are suicides (no one left to be prosecuted in any court), and the vast majority of the remaining (almost 14,000) deaths are perpetrated by actual criminals (who by definition do not abide by the law). I'm all for sentencing gun homicides to 110 years. Only 458 were accidents, and 353 undetermined. And if you're not cherry picking truck-related deaths, vehicles killed 42,060 people in 2020. Certainly many of the car-related deaths are also vehicular homicide, but your average car doesn't present the magnitude of death risk that a semi does, hence the higher licensing requirements and liability.

Quote:As a minor point - if Syne could avoid using the term 'everyone' when expressing an opinion he might appear less deluded.

Thanks for being so up front about being an actual moron that SS did dupe by claiming her comments about a doctor had nothing to do with the topic under discussion. Guess she fooled you into thinking it was just a complete non sequitur.

Quote:Going back to Aguilera-Mederos and the crash that seems to have become the subject of this thread..

Assuming what he said is true..
He did stop to ask for advice at the top of the slope. His brakes were already hot (smoking) when he stopped.

You're already getting the facts wrong. He said the brakes seemed fine, e.g. not smoking, when he stopped. Witnesses testified that the brakes were only smoking shortly before he reached the runaway truck ramp.

Quote:Judging whether too hot or not would be a matter of experience - the experience he was about to get. If the advice he was given was wrong (or he ignored it) then even at the top of the slope the best outcome would be that he ended up in the runaway truck lane. 

No, if he stayed in a low enough gear, he wouldn't have needed to rely on the brakes. If he was ignorant of or ignored that advice, he was criminally negligent before he started that leg of his run.

Quote:For some combination of reasons which may (or may not) include lining up to take the next curve without flipping he missed the runaway truck lane. Some might say he's (metaphorically) flipped the safety catch off and is now pointing his loaded rifle at innocent people as he proceeds down the slope. There's a twist here which I have never seen (anywhere) mentioned - if he tried to change down to get engine braking and the speed regulator has shut down the throttle he wouldn't be able to crash into any gear and would freewheel the rest of the way down the slope.

I've already addressed that:

"If you've failed to start a steep downhill grade properly, you're already screwed. Doesn't matter if it has a speed governor. You need to already be in a low gear, otherwise you risk burning up the brakes to downshift...and hope you get to a low enough gear first. Hope is not a responsible driving strategy."

But there's no indication that his truck was equipped with a speed governor. If he were freewheeling, he would have been even more negligent, knowing that there was nothing he could do to slow the truck but plowing ahead with zero regard for the lives of others anyway.

Quote:In terms of gun safety his best option might have been to turn the gun on himself and deliberately flip the truck. The UK Highway Code doesn't have a '..and now you kill yourself' section - maybe the US code does - I wouldn't know.

False dilemma, as pointing a gun in a safe direction never requires turning it on yourself. Neither did stopping that truck require a decision to kill himself. Trucks rollover all the time without killing the driver.

(Dec 17, 2021 01:49 AM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]I can see Syne's point about there being people weeping in court. In the US it seems there are around 4,000 deaths and more than 100,000 injuries in truck crashes every year so an average of rather more than 12 people weeping in courts every day around the country. Maybe some truck related deaths are comparable to the 40,000 deaths caused by pointing a loaded gun at someone and pulling the trigger but I suspect most aren't.

As a minor point - if Syne could avoid using the term 'everyone' when expressing an opinion he might appear less deluded.

Going back to Aguilera-Mederos and the crash that seems to have become the subject of this thread..

Assuming what he said is true..
He did stop to ask for advice at the top of the slope. His brakes were already hot (smoking) when he stopped. Judging whether too hot or not would be a matter of experience - the experience he was about to get. If the advice he was given was wrong (or he ignored it) then even at the top of the slope the best outcome would be that he ended up in the runaway truck lane.  For some combination of reasons which may (or may not) include lining up to take the next curve without flipping he missed the runaway truck lane. Some might say he's (metaphorically) flipped the safety catch off and is now pointing his loaded rifle at innocent people as he proceeds down the slope. There's a twist here which I have never seen (anywhere) mentioned - if he tried to change down to get engine braking and the speed regulator has shut down the throttle he wouldn't be able to crash into any gear and would freewheel the rest of the way down the slope. In terms of gun safety his best option might have been to turn the gun on himself and deliberately flip the truck. The UK Highway Code doesn't have a '..and now you kill yourself' section - maybe the US code does - I wouldn't know.

I don’t know if there’s a law that forces truckers to use the ramps, but they did a survey in response to the crash in hopes of designing a new runaway ramp just before the scene of the crash.

"The survey comes as a response to the 2019, 28 vehicle pileup crash on Interstate 70 caused by an inexperienced trucker’s brake failure while traveling down the mountain. Those involved in the case say that the truck driver in that crash, Rogel Aguilera-Mederos, was unfamiliar with mountain roads, particularly runaway ramps, which was a major factor in the crash.

Now, CDOT hopes that feedback from the survey will help to determine the best placement and design for a new runaway truck ramp, which will be located on I-70 just before the scene of that crash, reported 9 News."

https://cdllife.com/2021/cdot-conducting...ie-driver/

"It’s a punishment nobody seems to agree with.

*The length of prison time is due to Colorado law, which established mandatory minimum sentences for some of the charges Aguilera-Mederos faced while also mandating that these charges must be served consecutively, not concurrently — or, one after another, not at the same time.

*Judge Jones said he has “no desire to see” Aguilera-Mederos spend the rest of his life in jail, according to the Denver Post.

*The Denver Post’s editorial board is calling for Colorado Governor Jared Polis to commute part of Aguilera-Mederos’ sentence. Perhaps the driver lacked the experience to deal with such an emergency — he was just 23 years old when the crash occurred. Perhaps he underestimated the severity of the problem until it was too late, and he had nowhere to go. Regardless, sending an employee to a lifetime-and-a-half in prison as a result of a tragedy stemming from equipment failure isn’t going to do anyone any favors — especially when nobody, not even those who lost loved ones, wants it."

https://jalopnik.com/truck-driver-senten...1848226110

You're still trying to excuse his actions. Again, hope the victim's families never come across all these callous posts of yours.
Imagine how you'd feel, if you'd lost a loved one, the perpetrator was legally convicted and sentenced, according to longstanding law, and then there was an outpouring of support...for the perpetrator.

(Dec 17, 2021 04:28 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]You're still trying to excuse his actions. Again, hope the victim's families never come across all these callous posts of yours.
Imagine how you'd feel, if you'd lost a loved one, the perpetrator was legally convicted and sentenced, according to longstanding law, and then there was an outpouring of support...for the perpetrator.

Unfortunately road accidents happen all the time.  Some are out of a persons control and others could of been prevented, or at least reduced in effect.  The problem is that we only observe such an event in hind-sight.  Hind-sight is the outcome of causality there is no changing it.  People should be wary thinking that they would know what to do in a given situation.

You(rhetorical you, not you specifically) could spend days/weeks thumbing through evidence, testimony and coming up with your own assumptions on how things would unfold based upon what you know should have be done in such a situation.

There is a possibility of an underlaying health issue like PTSD, Aspergers with mild Dyslexia.  If that was the case then it's possible that he realised the vehicle was out of control and panicked. 

Panicking could cause the wrong response/actions, as it can literally jam up a persons fine motorskills and even create a kind of trauma triggered dyslexia. 

The dyslexia might be unnoticable by other people until its triggered in an individual by distress.  This reaction for an analogy would be a bit like an old phone switchboard. 
When a person is operating normally then calls get put through in a timely fashion, and the number of calls being processed is no where near the systems limit. 

In a person who has a hidden disadvantage like dyslexia, they might be able to compensate (to appear normal) most of the time but re-routing calls through other switches.  This means their brain (the switchboard) is doing more work than a normal person, which in turn means it has little extra room for an increase in activity (more calls).

When there is an increase in distress or a trauma (in the analogy this would be the calls increase to maximum capacity), a normal person *might* be able to cope.
A person with dyslexia is already taxing their system from rerouting calls, they can't keep up with the logistics of it.  (This could be pushing/flicking the wrong buttons/switches at the wrong time, or shifting the wrong gear). 

Furthermore there could be the complication in reading signs or even directions. 

Quote:"The simplest problem some people have is knowing their right from their left... no!, their other ⬅"

What I'm showing here is that it should be easy to digest which the written meaning of right or left is, however when you interchange words and directional arrows it can cause confusion to some, even if it's only a couple of milliseconds (for their re-routing to handle it) it's a small delay that can cause problems in a situation where the right action needs to be done expediently.