The tragedy of covid 19 long haulers

[Magical Realist]

Physical deconditioning-or being out of shape-can cause shortness of breath in people when they try to exercise

Shortness of breath when they exercise, not when they're sedentary. Again, a sedentary life doesn't cause body aches, headaches, and shortness of breath. You're just making shit up because you don't want to admit covid's lingering and well documented longterm effects.

Learn to read, nitwit. I said caused by sedentary lifestyle, not "when sedentary". But pleurisy (mentioned earlier, which can be caused by pulmonary embolism from excessive sitting: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20110705...y-embolism ) causes shortness of breath even when sedentary. And I JUST gave you links for sedentary lifestyle causing aches (arthritis and pain), migraines (on the wiki), and deconditioning (shortness of breath). Just read the citations you asked for...try to display a minimum of intellectual honesty. We're not far enough out from Covid (still happening, with the possibility of reinfection, especially as cases spike again) to have "well-documented long-term effects". Jeez, why do you even try to post on science forums? 9_9

LOL..Spare me the pretentious medical diagnostics. We are talking here of a specific group of patients who are coming out of a bout with covid exhibiting the very same symptoms that led to their diagnosis in the first place. Debilitating fatigue, body aches, headaches, shortness of breath, coughing, joint pain, insomnia--- only they now test negative for the virus. None of these symptoms have anything to do with just being sedentary. They all have to do with covid and the lingering affects of the virus on the body. Read the article again if you are having trouble understanding this.

"The list of symptoms is long, wide and inconsistent. For some people, they are nothing like the original symptoms they had when they first were infected by COVID-19. The most common include:

Coughing
Ongoing, sometimes debilitating, fatigue
Body aches
Joint pain
Shortness of breath
Loss of taste and smell — even if this did not occur during the height of their illness
Difficulty sleeping
Headaches
Brain fog

That last one is among the most confounding. Patients report being unusually forgetful, confused or unable to concentrate even enough to watch TV.

“That sort of brain fog can happen to people who were in an intensive care unit for a length of time, but it is relatively rare,” Kenyon said. “But this is happening to all sorts of patients, including people who had mild cases and were not hospitalized.”

Symptoms for long-haulers are not uniform. Some report severe chest pain along with more general body aches. Others have chills and sweats or gastrointestinal issues. Some people have reported feeling better for days or even weeks then relapsing.

For others, it’s a case of just not feeling like themselves.

“There are patients who can go for a run and test completely normal,” Kenyon said. “But they still don’t feel right. They aren’t back to their old selves, but we can’t fully define what’s wrong. Telling a patient who feels bad that they are fine and there is nothing we can identify is not a decent answer for them, or for us.”=== https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/n...lp/2020/10

[Syne]

Learn to read, nitwit. I said caused by sedentary lifestyle, not "when sedentary". But pleurisy (mentioned earlier, which can be caused by pulmonary embolism from excessive sitting: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20110705...y-embolism ) causes shortness of breath even when sedentary. And I JUST gave you links for sedentary lifestyle causing aches (arthritis and pain), migraines (on the wiki), and deconditioning (shortness of breath). Just read the citations you asked for...try to display a minimum of intellectual honesty. We're not far enough out from Covid (still happening, with the possibility of reinfection, especially as cases spike again) to have "well-documented long-term effects". Jeez, why do you even try to post on science forums? 9_9

LOL..Spare me the pretentious medical diagnostics. We are talking here of a specific group of patients who are coming out of a bout with covid exhibiting the very same symptoms that led to their diagnosis in the first place. Fatigue, body aches, headaches, shortness of breath, insomnia--- only they now test negative for the virus.  None of these symptoms have anything to do with just being sedentary. They all have to do with covid and the lingering affects of the virus on the body. Read the article again if you are having trouble understanding this.

Quit talking out of your ass. In many case, these very same people are still in lockdowns, and there's been no comprehensive studies, with controls to rule out other factors. ALL of the symptoms can come from being sedentary, as the many citations I gave you (and you refuse to read) clearly show. Since you obviously haven't bothered to read any of the citations, again, that YOU ASKED FOR, I know you won't read them again. You decided this article in your OP is gospel, and you won't countenance anything else. Don't give into the irrational fear, mate. Follow the actual science.

[Magical Realist]

Learn to read, nitwit. I said caused by sedentary lifestyle, not "when sedentary". But pleurisy (mentioned earlier, which can be caused by pulmonary embolism from excessive sitting: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20110705...y-embolism ) causes shortness of breath even when sedentary. And I JUST gave you links for sedentary lifestyle causing aches (arthritis and pain), migraines (on the wiki), and deconditioning (shortness of breath). Just read the citations you asked for...try to display a minimum of intellectual honesty. We're not far enough out from Covid (still happening, with the possibility of reinfection, especially as cases spike again) to have "well-documented long-term effects". Jeez, why do you even try to post on science forums? 9_9

LOL..Spare me the pretentious medical diagnostics. We are talking here of a specific group of patients who are coming out of a bout with covid exhibiting the very same symptoms that led to their diagnosis in the first place. Fatigue, body aches, headaches, shortness of breath, insomnia--- only they now test negative for the virus.  None of these symptoms have anything to do with just being sedentary. They all have to do with covid and the lingering affects of the virus on the body. Read the article again if you are having trouble understanding this.

Quit talking out of your ass. In many case, these very same people are still in lockdowns, and there's been no comprehensive studies, with controls to rule out other factors. ALL of the symptoms can come from being sedentary, as the many citations I gave you (and you refuse to read) clearly show. Since you obviously haven't bothered to read any of the citations, again, that YOU ASKED FOR, I know you won't read them again. You decided this article in your OP is gospel, and you won't countenance anything else. Don't give into the irrational fear, mate. Follow the actual science.

"The list of symptoms is long, wide and inconsistent. For some people, they are nothing like the original symptoms they had when they first were infected by COVID-19. The most common include:

Coughing
Ongoing, sometimes debilitating, fatigue
Body aches
Joint pain
Shortness of breath
Loss of taste and smell — even if this did not occur during the height of their illness
Difficulty sleeping
Headaches
Brain fog

That last one is among the most confounding. Patients report being unusually forgetful, confused or unable to concentrate even enough to watch TV.

“That sort of brain fog can happen to people who were in an intensive care unit for a length of time, but it is relatively rare,” Kenyon said. “But this is happening to all sorts of patients, including people who had mild cases and were not hospitalized.”

Symptoms for long-haulers are not uniform. Some report severe chest pain along with more general body aches. Others have chills and sweats or gastrointestinal issues. Some people have reported feeling better for days or even weeks then relapsing.

For others, it’s a case of just not feeling like themselves.

“There are patients who can go for a run and test completely normal,” Kenyon said. “But they still don’t feel right. They aren’t back to their old selves, but we can’t fully define what’s wrong. Telling a patient who feels bad that they are fine and there is nothing we can identify is not a decent answer for them, or for us.”=== https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/n...lp/2020/10

[Syne]

You pasted an abbreviated link that doesn't work. Was that on purpose?

But notice how you had to go elsewhere for what you claimed your OP already showed. And even then, without a good link, there's no telling if this one is any more comprehensive than the first. 9_9

[Magical Realist]

You pasted an abbreviated link that doesn't work. Was that on purpose?

https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/n...lp/2020/10

But notice how you had to go elsewhere for what you claimed your OP already showed

I already posted the first article as evidence. I'm not going to post it again. I'll post and/or quote whatever articles I choose to support my arguments. Get used to it.

[Yazata]

I agree that enforced isolation and idleness, along with the stress associated with quasi-police-state lockdowns, the wholesale destruction of American small business and the elimination of the countless jobs that small business supports, the hollowing out of main streets all over the country and the suppression of the community street life that local businesses support, will have no end of health consequences, perhaps even worse consequences in total than the disease. Poverty, hopelessness and all of the problems associated with that (like drug addiction) will increase, as will psychiatric problems and suicide.

But having said that, I think that some (I'm not sure how many, but I don't think that it's insignificant) covid sufferers do seem to have lasting symptoms that don't seem to go away. The spectre of covid "long haulers" is definitely very worrisome. I've worried about recovery rates ever since the disease appeared in China.

So this argument isn't an either-or thing. Both things can be happening at once. And I think that they probably are. There's the social impacts and the medical ones.

[Syne]

You pasted an abbreviated link that doesn't work. Was that on purpose?

https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/n...lp/2020/10

But notice how you had to go elsewhere for what you claimed your OP already showed

I already posted the first article as evidence. I'm not going to post it again. I'll post and/or quote whatever articles I choose to support my arguments. Get used to it.

Yeah, your OP article was far from compelling, if you bothered to read it and the links to the actual studies. First one only included 143 patients, and 292 respondents in the second. Not representative samples.

And where your OP claims that "50% to 80% of patients continue to have bothersome symptoms three months after the onset of COVID-19", your latest UC Davis link only "estimate about 10% of COVID-19 patients become long-haulers". Huge discrepancy.

And then there's more supporting my claim:

A tale of two pandemics: How will COVID-19 and global trends in physical inactivity and sedentary behavior affect one another?
...
In conclusion, we are currently confronted with two pandemics occurring at the same time. The world will recover from the COVID-19 pandemic and so-called normal activities will resume. However, the PI/SB [physical inactivity/sedentary behavior]pandemic will continue and, more troublingly, we may be at risk for this pandemic to worsen as a result of COVID-19.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7194897/


COVID-19 pandemic brings a sedentary lifestyle: a cross-sectional and longitudinal study
...
This study aimed to investigate: 1) physical activity (PA) levels, sedentary behavior (SB) and sleep among young adults during COVID-19 epidemic, and 2) the change in these behaviors before and during the pandemic.
...
Results: Participants reported engaging in low PA, high SB and long sleep duration during COVID-19 pandemic.
...
Conclusion: The results of this study demonstrated a sedentary lifestyle in young adults in responses to social distancing during the COVID-19 pandemic
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/...20110825v1

And I've already given links on the long-term health repercussions of sedentary lifestyle.

---

So this argument isn't an either-or thing. Both things can be happening at once. And I think that they probably are. There's the social impacts and the medical ones.

I agree, and I haven't said otherwise.

[Magical Realist]

I agree, and I haven't said otherwise.

LOL Backpeddle much?

Those are common symptoms of about half the people stuck at home in lockdowns, even without Covid.

So are you going to lie now and say you weren't attributing the list of covid longhauler symptoms to a sedentary lifestyle instead?

[Syne]

I agree, and I haven't said otherwise.

LOL  Backpeddle much?

Those are common symptoms of about half the people stuck at home in lockdowns, even without Covid.

So are you going to lie now and say you weren't attributing the list of covid longhauler symptoms to a sedentary lifestyle instead?

Again, learn to read, nitwit. "...even without Covid" literally means that some people with those symptoms could be Covid-related. Zero reason to make that distinction otherwise.
Nor did I attribute those symptoms only to sedentary lifestyle, per my first three citations in this thread dealing with mental health.

[Magical Realist]

I agree, and I haven't said otherwise.

LOL  Backpeddle much?

Those are common symptoms of about half the people stuck at home in lockdowns, even without Covid.

So are you going to lie now and say you weren't attributing the list of covid longhauler symptoms to a sedentary lifestyle instead?

Again, learn to read, nitwit. "...even without Covid" literally means that some people with those symptoms could be Covid-related. Zero reason to make that distinction otherwise.
Nor did I attribute those symptoms only to sedentary lifestyle, per my first three citations in this thread dealing with mental health.

I have no interest in watching to you pathetically twist yourself into pretzels just to deny what you've been arguing for for like 6 posts now. Suffice it to say that a sedentary lifestyle can't be all that bad since that's the one surefire thing recommended to people when they feel sick.