Random thoughts/comments

confused2 Offline
(Nov 24, 2020 10:04 PM)Syne Wrote:
(Nov 24, 2020 08:48 PM)Leigha Wrote: I’ve been hearing that Republicans are wary that Biden will lead the US into wars. Thought the left are made up of peacemakers or is that just a front? Dodgy
Obama got/kept us in more conflicts than most remember or realized. It was him pulling out of a peacekeeping mission in Iraq that led to ISIS taking over. Trump has been all about bringing all our troops home. So yeah, anti-war leftists are just a front. If anything, Democrat presidents need to take more military action because enemies know they can get away with more without retaliation (like Russia taking Crimea under Obama), and then they're forced to take more action than a strong threat of force would have. Being thought to be string is often more effective than having to prove it.


(Nov 24, 2020 09:02 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Do you think Biden scares any world leader out there?
Not a single one. After all, many have already bribed him. He'll side with China on Taiwan, Hong Kong, and trade deals, let Russia "annex" more of its neighbor's territory, re-empower Iran's nuclear ambitions, and just talk a blue streak in the UN about economic sanctions and impotent, rubber-stamp nuclear inspections.

(Nov 24, 2020 09:36 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: I think the Mexican drug cartels are ramping up in anticipation. Big Grin
There's already reports of new immigrant caravans prepping, and that's a good place to hide human and drug trafficking.

@Syne
Given your glowing account of Trump's successes while in office - can you think of any reason(s) why so many Americans (possibly even a majority within your electoral system) might have voted for Biden?
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Syne Offline
(Nov 25, 2020 12:35 AM)confused2 Wrote: @Syne
Given your glowing account of Trump's successes while in office - can you think of any reason(s) why so many Americans (possibly even a majority within your electoral system) might  have voted for Biden?

Easy. The media telling proven lies for four years straight. It's called propaganda, and people use it because it works.



What, nothing about your Sweden/Norway comparison?
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Syne Offline
(Nov 25, 2020 01:11 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: How did Sweden outperform everybody on COVID-19? That's easy -- it didn't

That "Op-Ed" has faulty data. Sweden has 642 deaths per million and Italy has 849, per: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
And their 6,500 deaths is actually a 2.9% death rate of their 225,560 cases. Not 6.1%. And the US only has a 2.1% death rate, not 2.8%. So Sweden didn't outperform everyone, but then, that's a straw man that no one asserted. They did do better than many counties with heavy lock downs and mask/distancing mandates.

They've had fewer deaths per million than, Spain, Italy, UK, US, France, etc..


Again, research beyond your confirmation bias...and try to find sources better than Op-Eds.
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Leigha Offline
(Nov 24, 2020 10:04 PM)Syne Wrote:
(Nov 24, 2020 08:48 PM)Leigha Wrote: I’ve been hearing that Republicans are wary that Biden will lead the US into wars. Thought the left are made up of peacemakers or is that just a front? Dodgy
Obama got/kept us in more conflicts than most remember or realized. It was him pulling out of a peacekeeping mission in Iraq that led to ISIS taking over. Trump has been all about bringing all our troops home. So yeah, anti-war leftists are just a front. If anything, Democrat presidents need to take more military action because enemies know they can get away with more without retaliation (like Russia taking Crimea under Obama), and then they're forced to take more action than a strong threat of force would have. Being thought to be string is often more effective than having to prove it. 

Think there are mixed messages out there regarding Trump's stance on war, as seen in this article that paints him as a monster:

https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/trum...an-deaths/

Trump inherited these efforts from his predecessor President Barack Obama, but the 45th president has also intensified them. There can be no doubt that Trump has contributed to making Yemen into what Human Rights Watch has described as the largest humanitarian crisis in the world. After more than five years of war, millions find themselves on the brink of starvation in what was already one of the world’s poorest countries. Trump has been glad to oversee the intensification of this crisis, bombing and carrying out raids in the country periodically, as well as arming foreign states like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates to aid in their own campaigns.
 

This article could be biased, but thought I'd post it to see your thoughts, per your reply above. It's just odd that Trump has touted himself as a opposing ''endless wars,'' yet allowed for this to happen. 

That said, when it comes to Biden, I wonder if like all Presidents, they're simply left inheriting some of the mess from previous administrations, along with the destructive path towards military intervention, feeling like there's no other choice than to continue the cycle. I hope not. 

Biden promises to end wars, but Presidential candidates say a lot of things when campaigning. Historically, his track record doesn't really match up with his promises. I hope for our sake, he's transparent about it.  Confused
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Syne Offline
(Nov 25, 2020 04:49 AM)Leigha Wrote:
(Nov 24, 2020 10:04 PM)Syne Wrote:
(Nov 24, 2020 08:48 PM)Leigha Wrote: I’ve been hearing that Republicans are wary that Biden will lead the US into wars. Thought the left are made up of peacemakers or is that just a front? Dodgy
Obama got/kept us in more conflicts than most remember or realized. It was him pulling out of a peacekeeping mission in Iraq that led to ISIS taking over. Trump has been all about bringing all our troops home. So yeah, anti-war leftists are just a front. If anything, Democrat presidents need to take more military action because enemies know they can get away with more without retaliation (like Russia taking Crimea under Obama), and then they're forced to take more action than a strong threat of force would have. Being thought to be string is often more effective than having to prove it. 

Think there are mixed messages out there regarding Trump's stance on war, as seen in this article that paints him as a monster:

https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/trum...an-deaths/

Trump inherited these efforts from his predecessor President Barack Obama, but the 45th president has also intensified them. There can be no doubt that Trump has contributed to making Yemen into what Human Rights Watch has described as the largest humanitarian crisis in the world. After more than five years of war, millions find themselves on the brink of starvation in what was already one of the world’s poorest countries. Trump has been glad to oversee the intensification of this crisis, bombing and carrying out raids in the country periodically, as well as arming foreign states like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates to aid in their own campaigns.
 

This article could be biased, but thought I'd post it to see your thoughts, per your reply above. It's just odd that Trump has touted himself as a opposing ''endless wars,'' yet allowed for this to happen. 
As per that sources bias: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-intercept/

Yemen has long been a quagmire. They've been in a persistent civil war, firing missiles at Saudi Arabia and the UAE, we've have an interest in killing terrorists who organize there, and we've been providing support for Saudi and UAE forces to try to limit civilian casualties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civ...93present) The US is largely not to blame for what has happened in Yemen, but leftists take any opportunity to tell lies.

Quote:That said, when it comes to Biden, I wonder if like all Presidents, they're simply left inheriting some of the mess from previous administrations, along with the destructive path towards military intervention, feeling like there's no other choice than to continue the cycle. I hope not. 
There is no cycle to continue. He can either talk strong and project strength, which neither he nor Obama did in their 8 years, or be challenged, ignored, and forced into conflicts that happen when the US is not seen as a threat.

Quote:Biden promises to end wars, but Presidential candidates say a lot of things when campaigning. Historically, his track record doesn't really match up with his promises. I hope for our sake, he's transparent about it.  Confused
Biden's not even transparent about the foreign dealings of his son, Hunter, and likely conflicts of interest. 17% of Biden voters now say they wouldn't have voted for him if they had known about that scandal.
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confused2 Offline
Syne Wrote:What, nothing about your Sweden/Norway comparison?
I put a value ($1 million) on a human life and commented on the ratio of cost of deaths to GDP. I didn't see any comments for or against so that was the end of that. What do you think I should add?
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Zinjanthropos Online
Besides Big Pharma, will COVID spawn any big winners?

Biden (might already be mission accomplished)? Pro-lifers? Youth? Medicine? Social Media? News Networks? Health Care? Others?
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Syne Offline
(Nov 25, 2020 11:26 AM)confused2 Wrote:
Syne Wrote:What, nothing about your Sweden/Norway comparison?
I put a value ($1 million) on a human life and commented on the ratio of cost of deaths to GDP. I didn't see any comments for or against so that was the end of that. What do you think I should add?

Your argument was that Sweden's lack of restrictions caused more death than Norway. But since Norway had fewer restrictions, your argument is obviously bullshit. Too bad you'd rather dodge that than just admit it.
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confused2 Offline
(Nov 25, 2020 06:07 PM)Syne Wrote: [quote="confused2" pid="39771" dateline="1606300014"]
[quote="Syne"]
What, nothing about your Sweden/Norway comparison?
I put a value ($1 million) on a human life and commented on the ratio of cost of deaths to GDP. I didn't see any comments for or against so that was the end of that. What do you think I should add?
Quote:Your argument was that Sweden's lack of restrictions caused more death than Norway. But since Norway had fewer restrictions, your argument is obviously bullshit. Too bad you'd rather dodge that than just admit it.
Quote:[quote]
Your argument was that Sweden's lack of restrictions caused more death than Norway.
It wasn't. I was suggesting placing a value of (say) $1 million on a human life and taking it from there. I wasn't attempting to address which and what measures might be effective.

Syne Wrote:But since Norway had fewer restrictions, your argument is obviously bullshit. Too bad you'd rather dodge that than just admit it.

Not actually my argument but since you want to go there:

Quote:On 12 March, a national lockdown was announced, effective from 18:00 the same day. For two weeks, schools, kindergartens, fitness centres, hair salons etc. were closed. Sports and cultural events and gatherings were banned and restrictions applied to restaurants.[21] These measures were in line with the those introduced in other European countries such as Denmark and Italy.
..........
Many institutions were closed in order to fight the outbreak, which led to increased unemployment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_p..._in_Norway

Other sources
Quote:'These are very invasive measures,' she [Norwegian PM] said.

The restrictions are set to upend Norwegians' daily life, with parents obliged to stay at home to care for their children, and those unable to work from home risking reduced income.

'This will weigh on both businesses and families,' Solberg said,' adding that the government vowed to provide measures that would aid business owners as well as allow for increased paid absence for parents caring for children.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...reads.html

You were saying?

Syne Wrote:But since Norway had fewer restrictions [than Sweden] , your argument is obviously bullshit.

In fairness Norway do seem to have avoided the worst of the epidemic by acting early (12th March 2020) and sensibly compared to (say) the UK on the 24th March and the US at the end of March.

Sorry I've messed up up the quote format - hopefully all is still clear enough.
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