Random thoughts/comments

#61
(May 18, 2019 07:03 AM)Leigha Wrote: Fun ''religious'' fact: Lady bugs get their name from the Virgin Mary. According to legend, European crops during the Middle Ages were plagued by pests. Farmers began praying to the Blessed Lady, the Virgin Mary. Soon, the farmers started seeing beneficial ladybugs in their fields, and the crops were miraculously saved from the pests. The farmers began calling the red and black beetles "our lady's birds" or lady beetles. In Germany, these insects go by the name Marienkafer, which means "Mary beetles." The seven-spotted lady beetle is believed to be the first one named for the Virgin Mary; the red color is said to represent her cloak, and the black spots her seven sorrows.

I need to brush up on my Catholicism, not sure what the seven sorrows are about.


Fun fact and/or fiction: if there’s any truth to any biblical accounts, it’s probably safe to assume that the Virgin Mary was a child when she was with child.

Quote:According to the apocryphal Gospel of James, Mary was the daughter of Saint Joachim and Saint Anne. Before Mary's conception, Anne had been barren and was far advanced in years. Mary was given to service as a consecrated virgin in the Temple in Jerusalem when she was three years old, much like Hannah took Samuel to the Tabernacle as recorded in the Old Testament.

Some apocryphal accounts state that at the time of her betrothal to Joseph, Mary was 12–14 years old, and he was ninety years old, but such accounts are unreliable. According to ancient Jewish custom, Mary could have been betrothed at about 12. Hyppolitus of Thebes says that Mary lived for 11 years after the death of her son Jesus, dying in 41 AD. [2]

In ancient and medieval societies it was common for girls to be betrothed at, or even before, puberty.[1] 

Quote:Fun probably isn't the right word.  Undecided
Yea, I think most accounts of Mary from a Catholic story-telling perspective, lodge her age at roughly 14 years old. And Joseph was supposed to be in his 30's, I believe?

I enjoy lady bugs, but after reading this, I'll be reminded of this.  Confused
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#62
Mc Donalds bows to fascist pressure while Burgerking start selling anti-facist milk shakes
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/18/uk/mc...index.html

i generally don't shop at McFascists
i certainly wont be dropping in now.

(May 18, 2019 02:43 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(May 18, 2019 07:03 AM)Leigha Wrote: Fun ''religious'' fact: Lady bugs get their name from the Virgin Mary. According to legend, European crops during the Middle Ages were plagued by pests. Farmers began praying to the Blessed Lady, the Virgin Mary. Soon, the farmers started seeing beneficial ladybugs in their fields, and the crops were miraculously saved from the pests. The farmers began calling the red and black beetles "our lady's birds" or lady beetles. In Germany, these insects go by the name Marienkafer, which means "Mary beetles." The seven-spotted lady beetle is believed to be the first one named for the Virgin Mary; the red color is said to represent her cloak, and the black spots her seven sorrows.

I need to brush up on my Catholicism, not sure what the seven sorrows are about.


Fun fact and/or fiction: if there’s any truth to any biblical accounts, it’s probably safe to assume that the Virgin Mary was a child when she was with child.

Quote:According to the apocryphal Gospel of James, Mary was the daughter of Saint Joachim and Saint Anne. Before Mary's conception, Anne had been barren and was far advanced in years. Mary was given to service as a consecrated virgin in the Temple in Jerusalem when she was three years old, much like Hannah took Samuel to the Tabernacle as recorded in the Old Testament.

Some apocryphal accounts state that at the time of her betrothal to Joseph, Mary was 12–14 years old, and he was ninety years old, but such accounts are unreliable. According to ancient Jewish custom, Mary could have been betrothed at about 12. Hyppolitus of Thebes says that Mary lived for 11 years after the death of her son Jesus, dying in 41 AD. [2]

In ancient and medieval societies it was common for girls to be betrothed at, or even before, puberty.[1] 

Fun probably isn't the right word.  Undecided

Alabama again ?

(May 18, 2019 05:22 PM)Syne Wrote: With a 35 year average life expectancy, 12-14 wasn't what it is today. Judging it by modern standards is the fallacy of presentism.

The Bible is pretty clear on protecting the innocent...like against being killed before even having a chance to live outside the womb. And with the high infant mortality of the day, any child was a blessing. So no, it would not count Alabama among Mary's sorrows. If anything, she would have related to the loss of a child quite strongly.

But don't let that stop your ignorant little fantasies.

man-splaining child sexual-slavery
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#63
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#64
Fun fact (has this become the fun fact thread)?...

Woman with Spina Bifida says she believes in a woman's and family's "right to choose" - to choose that she not exist - to have her 'terminated' - to have had her killed while still a fetus.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48317419
--------------
Baroness Grey-Thompson has said her parents would "probably have terminated the pregnancy" if they had known about her disability.
Her comments follow the UK's first operation, at King's College Hospital, to repair a baby's spine in the womb.
The Cardiff-born Paralympian, who has spina bifida, said terminating a disabled baby is a "complicated issue".
Speaking to Gareth Lewis on BBC Radio Wales, she said she believes in a woman's and family's "right to choose".
-----------------
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#65
(May 18, 2019 05:55 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(May 18, 2019 05:22 PM)Syne Wrote: With a 35 year average life expectancy, 12-14 wasn't what it is today. Judging it by modern standards is the fallacy of presentism.

The Bible is pretty clear on protecting the innocent...like against being killed before even having a chance to live outside the womb. And with the high infant mortality of the day, any child was a blessing. So no, it would not count Alabama among Mary's sorrows. If anything, she would have related to the loss of a child quite strongly.

But don't let that stop your ignorant little fantasies.

Oh, modern medicine (science) created pedophiles…interesting.

Yeah, at one time or another murder was even acceptable. Hell, I think it was even God who protected Cain, wasn’t it?
No, oh so obtuse one, shorter lifespans just naturally accelerated the phases of life (gotta have enough life left to raise any surviving children). And using the same age criteria to define pedophilia in both eras is still the fallacy of presentism.

Punishing instead of executing, one of the very few people purportedly around to help populate the earth? So if we didn't execute a murderer we "protected" or found it "even acceptable"? Git yer head out of yer ass.

Quote:Old men fucking 12 year olds; makes you wonder where all the old men came from, and how they were able to outlive all the women, doesn’t it? Where were all the viable 18 year olds? Not enough to go around, eh?

Yeah, the bible was pretty clear on protecting the innocent. WTF? Dodgy
Apparently someone don't know what the word "apocryphal", or even "unreliable", means in her own quote. Rolleyes
At 18, most women would have already been raising their children. Suffice it to say, the innocence of childhood didn't last as long in a more brutal world.

Quote:If Jesus is the child of God/or even God and she was 12-14, what would that make God by today's standards? A pedo? But it's kinda tricky, isn't it? If Jesus is God, (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) that would mean that he impregnated his own mother, wouldn't it? Weird!
Again with the tired and fallacious presentism. Rolleyes
Immaculate conception would not be violative. And all believers are the sons and daughters of god, being "made in the image of god".



(May 19, 2019 12:42 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:The Bible is pretty clear on protecting the innocent...like against being killed before even having a chance to live outside the womb.

Yeah like that law in Exodus that says if a man cause a woman with child to lose her baby he must pay her a fine. Obviously even back then the killing of a fetus wasn't seen as murder like you fanatics claim it is.

Exodus 21:22-25:

"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no [further] injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any [further] injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

This translation suggests that if a miscarriage takes place and the child is lost, the antagonists are simply fined, but if the mother dies in the scuffle, then the penalty is "life for life." In the Torah, it seems, the unborn is not considered fully human.

Theologian Millard Erickson notes that in this view, "the lex talionis [life for life] is applied only if the mother is harmed. On this basis it is concluded that the fetus was not considered a soul or a person, and thus is not to be thought of as fully human."---- https://www.str.org/articles/what-exodus...OCZcchKjIW

No, involuntary manslaughter carries a lessor penalty even today. Dodgy


ETA: Too bad I caught your ignorant post before you edited it.

(May 19, 2019 01:50 AM)confused2 Wrote: Fun fact (has this become the fun fact thread)?...

Woman with Spina Bifida says she believes in a woman's and family's "right to choose" - to choose that she not exist - to have her 'terminated' - to have had her killed while still a fetus.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48317419
--------------
Baroness Grey-Thompson has said her parents would "probably have terminated the pregnancy" if they had known about her disability.
Her comments follow the UK's first operation, at King's College Hospital, to repair a baby's spine in the womb.
The Cardiff-born Paralympian, who has spina bifida, said terminating a disabled baby is a "complicated issue".
Speaking to Gareth Lewis on BBC Radio Wales, she said she believes in a woman's and family's "right to choose".
-----------------

Really? Someone with a disability might wish they had never lived? Shocking! Dodgy
Outliers do not represent all such people, nor justify killing human life.
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#66
Quote:No, involuntary manslaughter carries a lessor penalty even today. Dodgy

Nope..no such thing as manslaughter back then. If the woman was accidently killed, then the perp would be killed too. So no..it wasn't manslaughter. It was placing less value on a fetus' life.
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#67
(May 19, 2019 02:14 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:No, involuntary manslaughter carries a lessor penalty even today.  Dodgy

Nope..no such thing as manslaughter back then. If the woman was accidently killed, then the perp would be killed too. So no..it wasn't manslaughter. It was placing less value on a fetus' life.

Again, NO ONE SAID there was "manslaughter back then"...another obvious and lazy straw man.  Rolleyes

4 This is the rule concerning anyone who kills a person and flees there for safety—anyone who kills a neighbor unintentionally, without malice aforethought. 5 For instance, a man may go into the forest with his neighbor to cut wood, and as he swings his ax to fell a tree, the head may fly off and hit his neighbor and kill him. That man may flee to one of these cities and save his life. 6 Otherwise, the avenger of blood might pursue him in a rage, overtake him if the distance is too great, and kill him even though he is not deserving of death, since he did it to his neighbor without malice aforethought.
- Deuteronomy 19:4-6 New International Version (NIV)


So yes, the Bible had the equivalent to manslaughter, oh so talking out of ignorance. By all mean, keep digging yer hole. Wink
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#68
(May 19, 2019 02:19 AM)Syne Wrote:
(May 19, 2019 02:14 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:No, involuntary manslaughter carries a lessor penalty even today.  Dodgy

Nope..no such thing as manslaughter back then. If the woman was accidently killed, then the perp would be killed too. So no..it wasn't manslaughter. It was placing less value on a fetus' life.

Again, NO ONE SAID there was "manslaughter back then"...another obvious and lazy straw man.  Rolleyes

4 This is the rule concerning anyone who kills a person and flees there for safety—anyone who kills a neighbor unintentionally, without malice aforethought. 5 For instance, a man may go into the forest with his neighbor to cut wood, and as he swings his ax to fell a tree, the head may fly off and hit his neighbor and kill him. That man may flee to one of these cities and save his life. 6 Otherwise, the avenger of blood might pursue him in a rage, overtake him if the distance is too great, and kill him even though he is not deserving of death, since he did it to his neighbor without malice aforethought.
- Deuteronomy 19:4-6 New International Version (NIV)


So yes, the Bible had the equivalent to manslaughter, oh so talking out of ignorance. By all mean, keep digging yer hole.  Wink

No..there is no manslaughter consideration here as the unintentional killer of the woman would be killed himself. So no..it's the blatant devaluation of the fetus' life as less valuable than a human's. There is no other interpretation that fits here.
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#69
Syne Wrote:Really? Someone with a disability might wish they had never lived? Shocking!
That is not what was said nor I believe what was intended. I suggest that what is demonstrated is that an intelligent adult can understand (and forgive) the thoughts (motives) that might have lead to her termination as a fetus. It is possible that both she and the girl that buys a pregnancy test kit and a wire coat hanger have a deeper understanding of the human condition than yourself.
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#70
(May 19, 2019 02:28 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
(May 19, 2019 02:19 AM)Syne Wrote:
(May 19, 2019 02:14 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:No, involuntary manslaughter carries a lessor penalty even today.  Dodgy

Nope..no such thing as manslaughter back then. If the woman was accidently killed, then the perp would be killed too. So no..it wasn't manslaughter. It was placing less value on a fetus' life.

Again, NO ONE SAID there was "manslaughter back then"...another obvious and lazy straw man.  Rolleyes

4 This is the rule concerning anyone who kills a person and flees there for safety—anyone who kills a neighbor unintentionally, without malice aforethought. 5 For instance, a man may go into the forest with his neighbor to cut wood, and as he swings his ax to fell a tree, the head may fly off and hit his neighbor and kill him. That man may flee to one of these cities and save his life. 6 Otherwise, the avenger of blood might pursue him in a rage, overtake him if the distance is too great, and kill him even though he is not deserving of death, since he did it to his neighbor without malice aforethought.
- Deuteronomy 19:4-6 New International Version (NIV)


So yes, the Bible had the equivalent to manslaughter, oh so talking out of ignorance. By all mean, keep digging yer hole.  Wink

No..there is no manslaughter consideration here as the unintentional killer of the woman would be killed himself. So no..it's the blatant devaluation of the fetus' life as less valuable than a human's. There is no other interpretation that fits here.
Apparently I need to remind you to work on your reading skills again. When it clearly says the man is "not deserving of death" for an unintentional death, there obviously was an analog to manslaughter.



(May 19, 2019 02:31 AM)confused2 Wrote:
Syne Wrote:Really? Someone with a disability might wish they had never lived? Shocking!
That is not what was said nor I believe what was intended. I suggest that what is demonstrated is that an intelligent adult can understand (and forgive) the thoughts (motives)  that might have lead to her termination as a fetus. It is possible that both she and the girl that buys a pregnancy test kit and a wire coat hanger have a deeper understanding of the human condition than yourself.
That "human condition" is worrying more about social consequences that moral ones. But I can see why you'd have trouble prioritizing those. Dodgy
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