Random thoughts/comments

[Leigha]

Hmm, why do you think that, confused? ^^

Upon taking the stand, the Chief of Police stated that for a non-violent call like that ($20 counterfeit bill that Floyd passed to Cup Foods) the situation shouldn’t have escalated to that level, especially since Floyd wasn’t armed. Police work is complicated though, so there’s that.

Sure, if people didn’t break the law, they wouldn’t get arrested but Floyd’s lifestyle choices aren’t on trial here, only Chauvin’s actions should be. A perfect storm of sorts but the verdict comes down to if Chauvin and his fellow officers acted appropriately or not, and if not - to what level is their misconduct. (given the circumstances of that day, etc) Police work is rough but that is the job and officers still have their own inner rules and procedures to follow. If they can “improvise” at will, however they wish, many more will die unnecessarily in custody.

[Zinjanthropos]

From the moment Floyd's car stopped (if not before) - it was inevitable that he was going to die that day - more specifically - he was going to be killed by people wearing police uniforms.

If that was the case then what’s inevitable ending of the trial? Although not exactly sure what you’re saying there C2. Sounds like a philosophical statement.

[Syne]

From the moment Floyd's car stopped (if not before) - it was inevitable that he was going to die that day - more specifically - he was going to be killed by people wearing police uniforms.

That does not follow. Had he not passed a counterfeit $20, the cops wouldn't have even been called. They didn't just happen across him. Had the cops not been called, he wouldn't have tried to eat the drugs, to keep from being caught with them. Had his friend/dealer told him what was really in the drugs, he might not have eaten them, considering he'd already overdosed twice from drugs that guy had given him. Had he not resisted every step of the way, he would have been safely in the squad car. Once secured in the squad car, any medical emergency would have been easier to differentiate from resisting and typical excuses.

IOW, if any one choice Floyd made were different, he would have had a much better chance of surviving the day. If he ingested the drugs, he still could have overdosed or had a heart attack, but medical assistance would have likely come much sooner, possibly saving his life.

[confused2]

If the cops had had an exit strategy from the restraint position other than the offender loses consciousness beyond all possible doubt (or dies) - he might still be alive. Did they have an exit strategy?

[Zinjanthropos]

If the cops had had an exit strategy from the restraint position other than the offender loses consciousness beyond all possible doubt (or dies) - he might still be alive. Did they have an exit strategy?

How many links in the chain of events do you want to go back?

[Leigha]

The officers had “exit strategies” according to what other officers stated on the stand (example: rolling Floyd to his side, calling for more back up, etc) Why didn’t they do that is the question. We as “Monday morning quarterbacks” can judge from afar but only they know why they didn’t use those “exit strategies.”

I watched the beginning of the video again when Floyd was first approached and cuffed, and to me, he didn’t look to be resisting arrest but I’m realizing that maybe I don’t know what that actually looks like. If someone takes off running or they’re pushing police officers etc I guess that’s what I thought it was, but it seems like unless you literally do exactly what an officer says in that moment, you’re resisting? I mean, Floyd was struggling with the officers when they tried to situate him in the squad car but before that - was he “resisting”?

[Syne]

If the cops had had an exit strategy from the restraint position other than the offender loses consciousness beyond all possible doubt (or dies) - he might still be alive. Did they have an exit strategy?

Exit strategies have to change with the situation, which included a hostile crowd yelling insults and threats, right when they needed to be able to pay more attention to Floyd.

---

The officers had “exit strategies” according to what other officers stated on the stand (example: rolling Floyd to his side, calling for more back up, etc) Why didn’t they do that is the question. We as “Monday morning quarterbacks” can judge from afar but only they know why they didn’t use those “exit strategies.”

Other officers cannot say, for certain, what they would do in that exact situation...until they are in it. Too many on-the-spot judgement calls involved. That is armchair quarterbacking too. Sure, knowing what they know now, they'd have rolled him on his side or something. Chauvin didn't have the benefit of knowing the future.

I watched the beginning of the video again when Floyd was first approached and cuffed, and to me, he didn’t look to be resisting arrest but I’m realizing that maybe I don’t know what that actually looks like. If someone takes off running or they’re pushing police officers etc I guess that’s what I thought it was, but it seems like unless you literally do exactly what an officer says in that moment, you’re resisting? I mean, Floyd was struggling with the officers when they tried to situate him in the squad car but before that - was he “resisting”?

Then you have no clue what you're seeing, and your whole opinion is pure ignorance.
Yes, Floyd was resisting at every step.

It's amazing how confident you can express opinions you are completely clueless about.
Congratulations, you've now completely verified my:

It's cute when people make emotional judgements out of complete ignorance of the law.

[Leigha]

Oops, I’m on my phone and deleted my reply as I want to use my laptop later instead.

I have to turn my phone sideways to post on this site from my phone. -_-

[C C]

Oops, I’m on my phone and deleted my reply as I want to use my laptop later instead.

I have to turn my phone sideways to post on this site from my phone. -_-

I have a tablet that's just wide enough to make SV modestly intelligible in the vertical orientation. But it's a work-related tablet, and I've never tried to post with it. (Pretty sure some of its installations include spyware reporting back about any mysterious deviations from protocol on my part. Nah, that's probably just paranoia fed to me by a friend who works for a home health care service. She's always tentatively looking at hers like it's God.)

[Leigha]

Oops, I’m on my phone and deleted my reply as I want to use my laptop later instead.

I have to turn my phone sideways to post on this site from my phone. -_-

I have a tablet that's just wide enough to make SV modestly intelligible in the vertical orientation. But it's a work-related tablet, and I've never tried to post with it. (Pretty sure some of its installations include spyware reporting back about any mysterious deviations from protocol on my part. Nah, that's probably just paranoia fed to me by a friend who works for a home health care service. She's always tentatively looking at hers like it's God.)

haha Yea, I'm not sure if your employer would be able to 'spy' on your online activity such as visiting this forum, if you're accessing this forum through your home internet provider. Maybe best to be a little paranoid, though.

I don't mind using my phone for read only when lurking here, but posting lengthy responses is more challenging. Also, when I'm in the middle of posting a response, and leave the site, when I return, the text box is empty. *sob* It's advantageous to be on my laptop so I can open other windows while on this site.

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If the cops had had an exit strategy from the restraint position other than the offender loses consciousness beyond all possible doubt (or dies) - he might still be alive. Did they have an exit strategy?

Exit strategies have to change with the situation, which included a hostile crowd yelling insults and threats, right when they needed to be able to pay more attention to Floyd.

---

The officers had “exit strategies” according to what other officers stated on the stand (example: rolling Floyd to his side, calling for more back up, etc) Why didn’t they do that is the question. We as “Monday morning quarterbacks” can judge from afar but only they know why they didn’t use those “exit strategies.”

Other officers cannot say, for certain, what they would do in that exact situation...until they are in it. Too many on-the-spot judgement calls involved. That is armchair quarterbacking too. Sure, knowing what they know now, they'd have rolled him on his side or something. Chauvin didn't have the benefit of knowing the future.

I watched the beginning of the video again when Floyd was first approached and cuffed, and to me, he didn’t look to be resisting arrest but I’m realizing that maybe I don’t know what that actually looks like. If someone takes off running or they’re pushing police officers etc I guess that’s what I thought it was, but it seems like unless you literally do exactly what an officer says in that moment, you’re resisting? I mean, Floyd was struggling with the officers when they tried to situate him in the squad car but before that - was he “resisting”?

Then you have no clue what you're seeing, and your whole opinion is pure ignorance.
Yes, Floyd was resisting at every step.

It's amazing how confident you can express opinions you are completely clueless about.
Congratulations, you've now completely verified my:

It's cute when people make emotional judgements out of complete ignorance of the law.

In watching the video, I suppose an argument could be made that Floyd was resisting arrest as soon as the two cops approached his car and tried to cuff him, before Chauvin arrived on the scene. I don't see that though, from a lay person's perspective. He was keeping his hands on the steering wheel, but acted confused and distressed. He got out of the car when they told him to, but he was still complaining, and acting distressed. They cuffed him as all that was happening. Probably fair to say that most people would be distressed knowing they're about to be arrested. But, he was difficult to physically control when they were trying to get him in the police car. And that was obvious, from the videos. That's when I felt he was resisting arrest, but I'm not a police officer. (Come to learn later though, that he could have been experiencing adverse physical effects from recently ingested drugs, at that point.)

Anyway, fast forwarding to when Floyd was on the ground - Chauvin's actions at that point, is what the trial is focused on. The Chief of Police took the stand, and stated plainly that Chauvin used excessive force, and violated policy. He went on to state that Chauvin didn't de-escalate the situation. Other expert witnesses stated pretty much the same. Even on the defense's cross examination, I didn't come away feeling that Chauvin's actions were justified.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/chauvin-trial...e-of-force

That said, the defense gets to present its case soon, which will be interesting. My concern is will the riots and tension from last year and media coverage of this case, sway some of the jurors? That video is tough to watch, but at the end of the day, Chauvin deserves a fair trial like any of us would hope for ourselves, if we were in his shoes.