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A ‘self-aware’ fish raises doubts about a classic cognitive test

#1
C C Offline
https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-self-aw...-20181212/

INTRO: A little blue-and-black fish swims up to a mirror. It maneuvers its body vertically to reflect its belly, along with a brown mark that researchers have placed on its throat. The fish then pivots and dives to strike its throat against the sandy bottom of its tank with a glancing blow. Then it returns to the mirror. Depending on which scientists you ask, this moment represents either a revolution or a red herring.

Alex Jordan, an evolutionary biologist at the Max Planck Institute for Ornithology in Germany, thinks this fish — a cleaner wrasse — has just passed a classic test of self-recognition. Scientists have long thought that being able to recognize oneself in a mirror reveals some sort of self-awareness, and perhaps an awareness of others’ perspectives, too. For almost 50 years, they have been using mirrors to test animals for that capacity. After letting an animal get familiar with a mirror, they put a mark someplace on the animal’s body that it can see only in its reflection. If the animal looks in the mirror and then touches or examines the mark on its body, it passes the test.

Humans don’t usually reach this milestone until we’re toddlers. Very few other species ever pass the test; those that do are mostly or entirely big-brained mammals such as chimpanzees. And yet as reported in a study that appeared on bioRxiv.org earlier this year and that is due for imminent publication in PLOS Biology, Jordan and his co-authors observed this seemingly self-aware behavior in a tiny fish.

Jordan’s findings have consequently inspired strong feelings in the field. “There are researchers who, it seems, do not want fish to be included in this secret club,” he said. “Because then that means that the [primates] are not so special anymore.”

If a fish passes the mirror test, Jordan said, “either you have to accept that the fish is self-aware, or you have to accept that maybe this test is not testing for that.” The correct explanation may be a little of both. Some animals’ mental skills may be more impressive than we imagined, while the mirror test may say less than we thought. Moving forward in our understanding of animal minds might mean shattering old ideas about the mirror test and designing new experiments that take into account each species’ unique perspective on the world....

MORE: https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-self-aw...-20181212/
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#2
Syne Offline
Probably just simple mirror neurons without any self-recognition at all.
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#3
confused2 Offline
Syne Wrote:Probably just simple mirror neurons without any self-recognition at all.
Cold fish.
Actual fish thinks "Aargh help there's a thing on me.

I tried the mirror thing with a hamster many years ago. Initially he reacted strongly to the hamster in the mirror - fluffed up and approached cautiously. After finding he couldn't get at the hamster in the mirror he made very clear that he wanted to look behind the mirror. After looking behind the mirror and finding no hamster he took no further interest in the hamster in the mirror. I got the impression he was treating it like a television - he had to check but once he'd checked he accepted the other hamster wasn't real. Hamster was a fully fledged member of the family and I'm not in the habit of aneasthatising (u no wot I mean) members of my family and doing things to them so that was the end of that.

I do have some potential rodent volunteers but I don't think Mrs C2 would be very pleased if she came home to find me sitting on the floor with a mirror and half a dozen rats.
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#4
Syne Offline
Mirror neurons just short-circuit the perception of something on someone else with the reaction of something on itself, without any self-awareness/recognition at all.

I would guess that the fish would react similarly to another fish with a mark on it. This test doesn't seem to have any such controls.
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#5
confused2 Offline
Syne Wrote:I would guess that the fish would react similarly to another fish with a mark on it. This test doesn't seem to have any such controls.
Good point. I recently posted about one seagull attempting to communicate 'what to do ' by doing it. Still very sophisticated behaviour for either a bird or fish. To behave altruistically towards a member of your own species - maybe something we (humans) have lost.
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