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Why Can't I Remember My Dreams.....

#11
Secular Sanity Offline
(Mar 16, 2018 03:50 AM)Syne Wrote: So you think being aware of dreaming is dreaming that you're dreaming?

Yes, in some sense. I think that I can describe it in a way that you’d understand.  It feels like there’s three levels or stages of consciousness.  It’s almost as if you’re asking who’s watching the watcher and then you ask whose asking.

I’ll try to give you a waking analogy.  Let’s say that you’re reading.  You’re focused on the story.  You don’t have any control over the content, but then as you try to understand, you begin using concepts to deal with the information.  You become an active player.  Your imagination, feelings, memories, etc., kick in as you begin to make mental representations.  You’re trying to link your experiences of the world with someone else’s. You’re lost in the book and unconstrained from sensory input, but then you start to pay attention to your surroundings again. You have the option to either continue reading or contend with everyday life.

You have the escapism—the book (dream), the process of understanding (lucid dreaming), and wakefulness (engaging in the external world).

If lucid dreaming occurs when only part of the brain wakes up then you’re not fully awake. You're dreaming a dream.

Syne Wrote:I doubt you'll ever sort out why I would ask.

Ah, let me guess.  You actively practice lucid dreaming just like with your transcendental experiences and so you’re an expert.  You’re special, aren’t you, Syne?  Big Grin
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#12
Zinjanthropos Offline
I can't ever recall dreaming that I was dreaming. I have felt major relief and disappointment upon waking up by realizing that it was all a dream. I have had a few erotic dreams and woke up with evidence that at least part of me was responding as if it was the real thing(wink,wink). And wives/girlfriends wonder why guys get frisky in the early morning. If women experience similar dreams and wake me up early, I will usually accommodate without much trouble. Do erotic dreams count as lucid? How about wet dreams? Though I can't remember if I've actually orgasmed in my sleep. If one does wake up wet and not remember why, probably an indication that you at least dreamt something during the night.

I've gotten into the habit of trying to associate my dreams with something I've experienced recently. I seem to be able to successfully relate my dreams to actual real time events in my waking hours. I assume that during sleep, the brain is actually processing and filing information gathered during the day and there may be some overwriting of memory or fragmentation going on in there. So perhaps dreaming is a way for the brain to cope with some bytes it has trouble storing or trashing and the actual visions experienced is the mind's way of determining importance or worthiness by having a second look. Maybe the dreams we can't recollect are haphazard pilot dreams leading to the completely packaged wake up dream production, an edited Reader's Digest version of all the dreams you experienced during sleep.
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#13
C C Offline
Consider yourself lucky. There are some people who either don't remember their dreams at all or go through sleep minus ever dreaming. The latter actually get to experience what death is like, since with respect to the real thing there is no "afterwards opportunity" for a period of reflection about the blankness, absence of everything, or missing time.

- - -
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#14
Secular Sanity Offline
(Mar 16, 2018 04:46 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: I can't ever recall dreaming that I was dreaming.

My family knew that I had a habit of sleepwalking. When my father came into the room, he told my mother I was just dreaming. I understood the implication, and I could participate in the conversation, but it still felt real. I didn't realize it was a dream until I started to reflect on my surrounding environment.

I’ve had other dreams that are similar to sleep paralysis. I dream that someone is breaking into my house. I realize that I’m asleep, and that I need to wake up to defend myself, but I can’t wake up. I try to tell myself that I’m only dreaming, but because it feels real, an internal argument ensues. That internal argument arouses me until I’m fully awake and then I realize that I whole damn thing was just a dream.

An opposite but similar experience happens as I’m waking up. I’m dreaming, but then part of my brain wakes up and starts to engage with the dream. As I start to engage with the dream, I begin to understand what’s happening. I realize it’s a dream, but it still feels real. As I work through it that process activates other parts of my brain, until I’m finally fully awake, and aware of my surroundings.

So, yes, for me, it feels like I’m dreaming a dream.
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#15
Magical Realist Offline
I've skirted the thin borderline of dream and wakefulness often. It's usually about hearing some loud music playing. One second I'm hearing someone playing a boombox outside my bedroom window in some bizarre neighborhood, and then I wake up in my room in total silence. Then I hear the blaring music again, and then it's gone again and I'm awake in my bed. It's a really striking contrast and a demonstration of the powerful sensory replication of dream states.
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#16
Syne Offline
(Mar 16, 2018 02:58 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(Mar 16, 2018 03:50 AM)Syne Wrote: So you think being aware of dreaming is dreaming that you're dreaming?

Yes, in some sense. I think that I can describe it in a way that you’d understand.  It feels like there’s three levels or stages of consciousness.  It’s almost as if you’re asking who’s watching the watcher and then you ask whose asking.

I’ll try to give you a waking analogy.  Let’s say that you’re reading.  You’re focused on the story.  You don’t have any control over the content, but then as you try to understand, you begin using concepts to deal with the information.  You become an active player.  Your imagination, feelings, memories, etc., kick in as you begin to make mental representations.  You’re trying to link your experiences of the world with someone else’s. You’re lost in the book and unconstrained from sensory input, but then you start to pay attention to your surroundings again. You have the option to either continue reading or contend with everyday life.

You have the escapism—the book (dream), the process of understanding (lucid dreaming), and wakefulness (engaging in the external world).

If lucid dreaming occurs when only part of the brain wakes up then you’re not fully awake.  You're dreaming a dream.  
So when you're reading a good book, you're reading that you're reading? O_o
That's nonsense, but it takes the exact same form as your "dreaming that you're dreaming".
Of course you're not fully awake when you're dreaming. "You're dreaming a dream" is a useless tautology. As opposed to what? Dreaming waking life? Dreaming unconsciousness? How is non-lucid dreaming NOT "dreaming a dream"? O_o
You seem to be trying to make some sort of distinction without difference. It's not working.
Lucid dreaming is nothing more than being aware you are dreaming. You're not dreaming the dream more, or dreaming that your dreaming, or dreaming within a dream. You're just aware of dreaming. It's not complicated.

Quote:
Syne Wrote:I doubt you'll ever sort out why I would ask.

Ah, let me guess.  You actively practice lucid dreaming just like with your transcendental experiences and so you’re an expert.  You’re special, aren’t you, Syne?  Big Grin
No, I don't practice lucid dreaming, and I rarely have lucid dreams, as far as I can remember. Nor do I think lucid dreaming is transcendental. That's a silly notion that seems to betray you're poor grasp of the transcendental.
My doubt is wholly illustrated by your above mental gymnastics. This seeming need to assign to lucid dreaming, or even a good book, some misguided significance. Maybe there is a transcendental hole in your life. I don't know.
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#17
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:My doubt is wholly illustrated by your above mental gymnastics. This seeming need to assign to lucid dreaming, or even a good book, some misguided significance. Maybe there is a transcendental hole in your life. I don't know.

Always honing in on a character flaw. What is wrong with you? Do you just instinctively sniff these things out?
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#18
Syne Offline
(Mar 16, 2018 09:38 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:My doubt is wholly illustrated by your above mental gymnastics. This seeming need to assign to lucid dreaming, or even a good book, some misguided significance. Maybe there is a transcendental hole in your life. I don't know.

Always honing in on a character flaw. What is wrong with you? Do you just instinctively sniff these things out?

I not only didn't say anything about it being a character flaw, I literally said "I don't know".

As usual, you're quick to associate any character flaw you infer with a specific person or group, completely unbidden. So your bigotry mindset is just a general habit, huh?
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#19
Magical Realist Offline
Yeah SS. Having "a transcendental hole in your life" isn't a character flaw. lol!
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#20
Syne Offline
(Mar 16, 2018 10:22 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Yeah SS. Having "a transcendental hole in your life" isn't a character flaw. lol!

Again, "I don't know". Plenty of good people live their whole lives without any transcendental experience. Her bringing it up non-sequitur might suggest she has some feeling on it, one way or the other, but that's her own consideration. Most of what we feel we personally lack in our lives is subjective, without any bearing on character at all.

But you are interested in attributing character flaws where only personal consideration in pertinent.
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