Mosaics alternative to male / female binary brain view

#11
Well, that study didn't make a gender comparison, and its finding were consistent even accounting for differences like gender.

I'm not sure why anyone would expect enjoyment or pride to differ in their effects by gender. Is there an "enjoyment" or "pride" gendered stereotype of which I'm unaware?
Did that study say that there was no difference in enjoyment or interest in math by gender? If it did, why would that need to be accounted for?


Not watching a two-hour debate. If you have an article or summary...
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#12
If there truly are no gendered brain differences, then homosexuals/transgenders would lose any genetic/physiological causation for their orientation/gender identity. Then they'd had to face that both are nurtured behaviors...not born that way. This is where feminist theory of gender/orientation as purely social construct conflicts with the homosexual/transgender desire for a primarily biological cause.
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#13
(Jan 6, 2018 01:57 AM)Syne Wrote: I'm not sure why anyone would expect enjoyment or pride to differ in their effects by gender. Is there an "enjoyment" or "pride" gendered stereotype of which I'm unaware?

Pride and Anger (wikipedia.org)

(Jan 6, 2018 04:23 AM)Syne Wrote: If there truly are no gendered brain differences, then homosexuals/transgenders would lose any genetic/physiological causation for their orientation/gender identity. Then they'd had to face that both are nurtured behaviors...not born that way. This is where feminist theory of gender/orientation as purely social construct conflicts with the homosexual/transgender desire for a primarily biological cause.

No one said that there are truly no gendered brain differences.  I know you don’t like to spend a lot of time on opposing opinions, because after all, cherries are sweet, but I hope that you’re a little more open minded than that.  

The Science and Pseudoscience of Gender Differences

Lise Eliot, a Professor of Neuroscience, said that sex difference are real and some probably present at birth, but then social factors magnify them. She said that she was surprised at how weak the evidence is for hormonal effects on our mood and thinking abilities. While prenatal testosterone has some pretty dramatic effects on play behavior and perhaps on later sexual orientation, the sex hormones that rise at puberty and remain elevated in adults have surprisingly modest effects on our thinking—except for sex drive, which testosterone elevates in both men and women!

She said something similar to what Mrs. Lucy said.

(Aug 15, 2017 01:00 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: Ah, Mrs. Lucy, so nice to see your name.  

Your latest topic at Sciforums caught my eye.

She said that if anything is "hardwired," I believe it is children’s desire to have an unambiguous gender identity, male or female. Even gender dysphoric children, those who seem unhappy with their biological sex, work hard to conform to the norms of the opposite sex.
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#14
(Jan 6, 2018 04:32 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(Jan 6, 2018 01:57 AM)Syne Wrote: I'm not sure why anyone would expect enjoyment or pride to differ in their effects by gender. Is there an "enjoyment" or "pride" gendered stereotype of which I'm unaware?

Pride and Anger (wikipedia.org)

Effect on the individual is not the same as stereotypical assumptions made on its expression.
Yes, men do generally "exhibit restrictive emotionality". It's called self-control.

If you don't know that women are generally more emotional, you're blind.
"This increased expressiveness in emotional expression is consistent across cultures – women report more intense emotional experiences and more overt emotional expressions across 37 cultures." Pride and Anger (wikipedia.org)

Quote:
(Jan 6, 2018 04:23 AM)Syne Wrote: If there truly are no gendered brain differences, then homosexuals/transgenders would lose any genetic/physiological causation for their orientation/gender identity. Then they'd had to face that both are nurtured behaviors...not born that way. This is where feminist theory of gender/orientation as purely social construct conflicts with the homosexual/transgender desire for a primarily biological cause.

No one said that there are truly no gendered brain differences.  I know you don’t like to spend a lot of time on opposing opinions, because after all, cherries are sweet, but I hope that you’re a little more open minded than that.  

The Science and Pseudoscience of Gender Differences

Lise Eliot, a Professor of Neuroscience, said that sex difference are real and some probably present at birth, but then social factors magnify them. She said that she was surprised at how weak the evidence is for hormonal effects on our mood and thinking abilities. While prenatal testosterone has some pretty dramatic effects on play behavior and perhaps on later sexual orientation, the sex hormones that rise at puberty and remain elevated in adults have surprisingly modest effects on our thinking—except for sex drive, which testosterone elevates in both men and women!

I'm happy to look into opposing views, just so long as I either don't have to waste two hours to find out the science is crap or people like you, who have ostensibly spent time looking into it, can point me to answers for my questions.

For instance, can you show me where Lise Eliot's research controlled for sexual orientation? I looked, but couldn't find it.
Since homosexual brains do show similarities to female brains, failing to account for them in the male samples would necessarily muddy the results...appearing more "mosaic".

How did she control for hormonal development, to distinguish it from social factors?
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#15
(Jan 4, 2018 07:03 PM)C C Wrote: https://aeon.co/essays/why-its-so-unhelp...male-brain

EXCERPT: . . . Of course, once upon a time, the guiding hand was God and now it’s Nature. Never mind that, in the God version, it was women who discovered the space of knowledge and invited men into it, and that Nature herself is a mother who birthed a world of astonishing diversity that defies binaries more often than not.

The unfulfilled wish is, of course, that men’s brains differ from – and by the usual implications are superior to – those of women in just the same way as men’s physiques differ and are superior. Stronger body, stronger mind, as though the brain were not, at a minimum, a pack of neurons with a wide and varied cast of support cells but instead a mass of contractile tissue, easily built up and broken down simply by following the rules dictated in Men’s Health.

And of course, the perceived binary of human anatomy offers thin scaffolding for the facile argument. Penile genitalia must mean a penile brain, evidently, just as a vulva and a vagina must mean a vulvo-vaginal brain. Nature, you see, in building the genitalia, which are much less complex than our minds, apparently defaulted to a super-lazy setting, and created brains on the binary.

So if you’re a Silicon Valley brogrammer who wants to drive women out of your manspace, or a Bernie Bro who thought that ‘Bern the witch’ was the summit of wit, then you’re more likely to rush to the rationale that society and culture – ie, things that we create outside of biology – don’t shape the male spaces that exclude women. No, you desperately want Nature to be responsible.

Appealing to a higher power and cherrypicking ‘evidence’ to support a convenient claim of superiority over others of your species is as human as scratching your butt. In this false iteration of that desperate measure of a failing privileged class, Nature created men to like and do certain man things, and naturally, therefore, men are simply better at these things. In complement, goes this wish-fulfilment rationale, Nature created women to like and do certain lesser things, and women are condescendingly told how great they are at it, especially the talking part, and please stay in the kitchen and make a sandwich because all of this analysis is over your head, Sweetie.

But Nature made me. And I am not rare. Indeed, an entire category of girl and woman exists that is large enough to warrant the now-archaic category of tomboy. We are legion, and most of us likely wished fervently at some point that we could be boys so we could simply gain access to what interested us most. How could nature both create an entire legion of girls whose interests and abilities cross into manworld, yet somehow be capable of producing brains only on a binary?

Nature doesn’t do binaries nearly as often as people think. But she’s a whiz with mosaics. Mosaics are taking shape as the scientific metaphor of the moment. Genetic mosaics – people with only a proportion of body cells carrying specific mutations – might be far more common than we realised. Habitats are mosaics of features, such as a meadow fading into a forest’s edge. And our brains, rather than fitting neatly into some binary of being ‘male’ or ‘female’, might also be mosaics, quilted together from pieces with varying hues of ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’ expression. You know, just like human behaviour, the result of these brains....

MORE: https://aeon.co/essays/why-its-so-unhelp...male-brain

Quote:Stronger body, stronger mind, as though the brain were not, at a minimum, a pack of neurons with a wide and varied cast of support cells but instead a mass of contractile tissue, easily built up and broken down simply by following the rules dictated in Men’s Health.


[Image: tenor.gif]


(Jan 4, 2018 10:35 PM)Syne Wrote: Why do gender brain differences have to imply superiority at all? Maybe women wouldn't be as adverse to studies showing clear differences if they didn't make inferences based on feelings of inferiority.

asking the slave class people why they protest soo much about cultural inequality for slaves ? then suggesting they are not being co-operative because they are protesting at something ?

strawman suggesting women are combative to medical surveys... LoL !

slavemaster asked the slave if they liked being a slave and hey barely made a fuss...

until now...

how does that flow chart look ?

proportional bias by the minority opposing equality of the majority ?
... sounds like the political model that is deemed ok because people are not surrounding the white house with weapons demanding their 1st amendment rights ?

convinience in dicotomy rational to suggest it being not the same because equal rights is not about ... ? the 1st amendment ?

its worth asking why all these alt-right men demanding free speach and the right to carry firearms do not protest outside the white house ?

intimidation ?

nature of the culture to be the bully ?

feral association to the template of ideological paradigm ?

the concept of paralell is soo far outside their ability to compute(&/or debate) that its self tells the chasim of existing cultural bias.


[Image: medium.gif]
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#16
(Jan 7, 2018 06:16 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Jan 4, 2018 10:35 PM)Syne Wrote: Why do gender brain differences have to imply superiority at all? Maybe women wouldn't be as adverse to studies showing clear differences if they didn't make inferences based on feelings of inferiority.

asking the slave class people why they protest soo much about cultural inequality for slaves ? then suggesting they are not being co-operative because they are protesting at something ?

strawman suggesting women are combative to medical surveys... LoL !

slavemaster asked the slave if they liked being a slave and hey barely made a fuss...

until now...

Wow! You think that there's gender inequality on par with slavery?! O_o
Who said anything about cooperation? Everyone's free to disagree with whatever study findings they wish, whether they can adequately justify their disagreement or not.
The straw man is claiming anyone said women were "combative"...which is typically a male trait. Their feelings of inferiority just cause cognitive dissonance with gendered brain differences.

Quote:how does that flow chart look ?

proportional bias by the minority opposing equality of the majority ?
... sounds like the political model that is deemed ok because people are not surrounding the white house with weapons demanding their 1st amendment rights ?

convinience in dicotomy rational to suggest it being not the same because equal rights is not about ... ? the 1st amendment ?

What are you babbling about? Seriously, you're posts are an incoherent, stream of consciousness mess.



Assuming you're gay, you should actually desire evidence of gendered brain differences. After all, that's the only evidence that you may have been "born that way." Or are you one of the rare breed who admits nurturing and environment may have played a larger role in your orientation? If so, then you might have been heterosexual, and the possibility still exists that you may yet become so. So either your orientation is a choice (or aberrant adaptation to adverse environment) or gendered brain differences show that homosexual brains are similar to those of the opposite sex.
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