Missing Argentine Submarine

[Zinjanthropos]

Then there's the human element. Mass murder/suicide quite prevalent these days yet we don't think of it happening underwater. Did we not have a crazy Austrian pilot slam a commercial airliner into a mountain, killing everyone on board most recently. A disgruntled, depressed, mentally disturbed sailor loses his mind and scuttles das boot. Not entirely out of the question.

Airplanes crash all the time. Causes are found, then corrections made, redesigns that make the industry safer for travel than ever before. Still, the human element seems to override any great technical changes. Would you know if submarines are equipped with devices similar to Cockpit Voice Recorders or Black Box Flight Recorders?

[RainbowUnicorn]

Then there's the human element. Mass murder/suicide quite prevalent these days yet we don't think of it happening underwater. Did we not have a crazy Austrian pilot slam a commercial airliner into a mountain, killing everyone on board most recently. A disgruntled, depressed, mentally disturbed sailor loses his mind and scuttles das boot. Not entirely out of the question.

Airplanes crash all the time. Causes are found, then corrections made, redesigns that make the industry safer for travel than ever before. Still, the human element seems to override any great technical changes. Would you know if submarines are equipped with devices similar to Cockpit Voice Recorders or Black Box Flight Recorders?

absolutely they are equiped with black boxes.
however the military may not want to tell the world if one of their submariners became suicidal.
i dont know if they haze and abuse their military personal in Arginita, or if relentless psychological bullying to destroy the mind of a personal member is condoned by the Argintine military.
some i wont name it was very common, and so there was a real issue about soldiers being shot on base.
there has been signifigant backtracking and re-designing of military conduct in the us to avoid any mass shootings by military staff whom have been pushed over the edge.
there were some suggestions that there were a few occasions over in the 1st gulf war and also the 2nd gulf war.


the moment these psychologically abused & tortured personal get to where there are heavier weapons, they let go several grenades into a sleeping quarters or such like type of thing.
i read a few items in the news media(many years back) that seemed to suggest the possibility it "may" have been potentially some type of murder suicide process or revenge.


the sooner we get more women & LGBTQ personal into the millitary the better they will become intellectualy and with other aspects that put put them ahead of others

[Zinjanthropos]

the sooner we get more women & LGBTQ personnel into the millitary the better they will become intellectually and with other aspects that put put them ahead of others

Pretty bold statement RU. Not sure into what context your attributing it to. Maybe you can elaborate a little on that. I'm assuming that they are the Military. Some people may think, because of the way it's written, that they refers only to LGBTQ personnel developing intellectually. I don't think your saying that all LGBTQ military personnel are dumb as rocks but I can see how someone might be confused. You're intimating that exclusion of LGBTQ keeps intellectual level of military low and only more LGBTQ involvement will raise it. 

What's the stat, 10% of all people are LGBTQ? I'm assuming LGBTQ is already in the military (been that way forever I would think) so I'm thinking your advocating a higher percentage of LGBTQ is required? See what I mean, not sure what it is you're saying here but I think some are going to take umbrage by it. Not saying your right or wrong, just need to clarify. 

[RainbowUnicorn]

the sooner we get more women & LGBTQ personnel into the millitary the better they will become intellectually and with other aspects that put put them ahead of others

Pretty bold statement RU. Not sure into what context your attributing it to. Maybe you can elaborate a little on that. I'm assuming that they are the Military. Some people may think, because of the way it's written, that they refers only to LGBTQ personnel developing intellectually. I don't think your saying that all LGBTQ military personnel are dumb as rocks but I can see how someone might be confused. You're intimating that exclusion of LGBTQ keeps intellectual level of military low and only more LGBTQ involvement will raise it. 

What's the stat, 10% of all people are LGBTQ? I'm assuming LGBTQ is already in the military (been that way forever I would think) so I'm thinking your advocating a higher percentage of LGBTQ is required? See what I mean, not sure what it is you're saying here but I think some are going to take umbrage by it. Not saying your right or wrong, just need to clarify. 

quite the reverse.

[Zinjanthropos]

Today:

noise detected near the last known location of a missing Argentine submarine 
was consistent with an explosion, the Argentine Navy said Thursday. .

I'm afraid all hope is lost. Poor buggers. R I P
Where are these sound detectors located? Seems you can't fart or lay naked in your backyard without somebody listening or watching.

[Yazata]

I'm afraid all hope is lost. Poor buggers. R I P

They probably all died a week ago when they first reported battery problems. Submarine batteries produce hydrogen and chlorine gas if they aren't charging properly. Hydrogen buildups on confined spaces are explosions waiting to happen and submarines have been lost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cochino_(SS-345)

http://ussnautilus.org/blog/uss-cochino-...sk-ss-426/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pomodon_(SS-486)

Where are these sound detectors located? Seems you can't fart or lay naked in your backyard without somebody listening or watching.

The detectors that supposedly picked up that sound belonged to the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Organization and the United States. Both sets of detectors supposedly agreed on time and position of the presumed explosion.

But there's something odd about that story. First of all, why would the Nuclear Test Ban people be monitoring the South Atlantic with hydrophones? Why would the United States? (And what unnamed American agency was doing the monitoring?)

And why did it take a week to release the information? (It was released on the day the submarine's air was estimated to run out.)

A plausible alternative theory out there on the internet speculates that the British Royal Navy has surrounded the Falkland Islands with submarine-detection hydrophones. (That sounds like the most plausible explanation for why somebody would be monitoring ocean sounds in that particular stretch of ocean.) The speculation goes that the British either told the Argentines about the explosion directly, or else leaked the data through the Test Ban Organization and the Americans to hide its original source. And the Argentine Navy may have been reluctant to release the information, given where they believed it originally came from.

[RainbowUnicorn]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-argen...DR2B3?il=0

BUENOS AIRES (Reuters) - Water entered the snorkel of the Argentine submarine ARA San Juan, causing its battery to short-circuit before it went missing on Nov. 15, a navy spokesman said on Monday as hope dwindled among some families of the 44-member crew.

The San Juan had only a seven-day oxygen supply when it lost contact, and a sudden noise was detected that the navy says could have been the implosion of the vessel. Ships with rescue equipment from countries including the United States and Russia were nonetheless rushing to join the search.

Before its disappearance, the submarine had been ordered back to its Mar del Plata base after it reported water had entered the vessel through its snorkel, causing a battery short circuit, navy spokesman Enrique Balbi told a news conference.

“They had to isolate the battery and continue to sail underwater toward Mar del Plata, using another battery,” Balbi said.

After contact with the San Juan was lost, the Vienna-based Comprehensive Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty Organization, an international body that runs a global network of listening posts designed to check for secret atomic blasts, detected a noise the navy said could have been the submarine’s implosion.

The search for the 65-meter (213-foot) diesel-electric submarine is concentrated in an area some 430 km (267 miles) off Argentina’s southern coast. The effort includes ships and planes manned by 4,000 personnel from 13 countries, including Brazil, Chile and Great Britain.
Among the crew’s family members, fissures started appearing on Monday between those who refuse to give up hope and those who say it is time to accept that their loved ones will not come back alive.
Some relatives have said they are focusing on the lack of physical evidence of an implosion and the possibility that the submarine might have risen close enough to the ocean surface to replenish its oxygen supply after it went missing.

hydraphone conspiracy theories...
keeping in mind several basic facts
1 anyone testing a nuclear weapon in th eopen ocean is probably not going to test it in sight of a majour shipping route.
2 noise carrys a long way underwater.

moving on...

just postulating...
i guess if the battery had leaked hydrogen gas as they dived from the water coming in...
new air
then gas
= no air
immediate response to?(run around throwing out life jackets or breathing vest type thingeys?) issues breathing gear/life jackets(?)...

additional spark explosion as that was happening resulting in the explosion causing the implosion.. all dead within a few seconds probably.

because the explosion was gas the pressure of the explosion was probably large enough to fail the structural integrity so as the main implosion was the only primary noise detected,
as and im guessing here as i am not up on this science..
the expansion sound waves would not travel fast enough or strong enough to make a signifigant wave form outside the hull prior to the implosion that would muffle the existing sound waves(im guessing on wave sciency stuff).

R.I.P

---

additionally
if they were re-freshing air.. would they have all sorts of hatches & ducts open that would allow the explosive gas to move through other parts making the explosion much more than just inside the battery room ?
almost the perfect storm of events ? (i dont know anything about that stuff so im just guessing)

[Zinjanthropos]

I have to wonder if water was leaking in through snorkel opening then why didn't they surface? It must have become apparent fairly early on that there was no way to fix the problem while submerged. Surely there must be some submariner protocol or military code that when followed, puts the sub on the surface. I guess having terrorists hijack the sub hypothesis was already used by Malaysian authorities looking for airliner.

[RainbowUnicorn]

I have to wonder if water was leaking in through snorkel opening then why didn't they surface? It must have become apparent fairly early on that there was no way to fix the problem while submerged. Surely there must be some submariner protocol or military code that when followed, puts the sub on the surface. I guess having terrorists hijack the sub hypothesis was already used by Malaysian authorities looking for airliner.

i just had a quick read of this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_snorkel

Snorkels created several problems for their users. A U-boat with a snorkel raised was limited to six knots to avoid breaking the tube, and its sound-detection gear was useless with the diesel engine running. Most dramatically, snorkels were equipped with automatic valves to prevent seawater from being sucked into the diesels, but when these valves slammed shut the engines would draw air from the boat itself before shutting down, causing a partial vacuum which was extremely painful to the ears of the crew and sometimes even ruptured eardrums.[7] This problem still exists in later model diesel (and even modern nuclear) submarines, but is mitigated by high-vacuum cut-off sensors that shut down the engines when the vacuum in the ship reaches a pre-set point.


Modern snorkel induction masts use a fail-safe design using compressed air, controlled by a simple electrical circuit, to hold the "head valve" open against the pull of a powerful spring. Seawater washing over the mast shorts out exposed electrodes on top, breaking the control circuit. This vents the compressed air and allows the head valve to slam shut. When the electrodes are again clear of the water, the circuit is re-energized and the valve reopens.