Crossing the Street

[Zinjanthropos]

Device distraction in even impoverished neighborhoods? 

My wife used to award subsidies, as part of her job, to people who claimed they didn't have a pot to piss in. She said it was always difficult when the client showed up with the most modern of cell phones ( complete with $400/mth tab) or a lap top in some cases. 

Distraction, will that be eliminated with the advent of electric cars or when sensors become 100% efficient at stopping a vehicle in case of wayward pesestrians?

[C C]

Distraction, will that be eliminated with the advent of electric cars or when sensors become 100% efficient at stopping a vehicle in case of wayward pesestrians?

An assistant professor of environmental studies used game theory to predict the potential interactions of self-driving cars and walkers. Based on that, the pedestrians would become even more careless and negligent, as well as increase in numbers. But despite the decline in accidents and a paradise for the footbound opening up, its designed distaste for risk-taking may make such circumstances a slow, drawn-out bore for passengers inside an autonomous vehicle.

“Pedestrians routinely play the game of chicken,” [Adam] Millard-Ball writes. [...] Secure in the knowledge that a [self-driving] car will yield, pedestrians merely need to act unpredictably or step into the street to force the risk-averse car to stop [...] “From the point of view of a passenger in an automated car, it would be like driving down a street filled with unaccompanied five-year-old children.” --Pedestrians may run rampant in a world of self-driving cars... Guy Lasnier ... University of California

- - -

[Zinjanthropos]

Distraction, will that be eliminated with the advent of electric cars or when sensors become 100% efficient at stopping a vehicle in case of wayward pesestrians?

An assistant professor of environmental studies used game theory to predict the potential interactions of self-driving cars and walkers. Based on that, the pedestrians would become even more careless and negligent, as well as increase in numbers. But despite the decline in accidents and a paradise for the footbound opening up, its designed distaste for risk-taking may make such circumstances a slow, drawn-out bore for passengers inside an autonomous vehicle.

“Pedestrians routinely play the game of chicken,” [Adam] Millard-Ball writes. [...] Secure in the knowledge that a [self-driving] car will yield, pedestrians merely need to act unpredictably or step into the street to force the risk-averse car to stop [...] “From the point of view of a passenger in an automated car, it would be like driving down a street filled with unaccompanied five-year-old children.” --Pedestrians may run rampant in a world of self-driving cars... Guy Lasnier ... University of California

- - -

Should be a lot easier (with faith in modern technology minimizing risk for perps) to be a victim of crime while in a car that won't move. Maybe pedestrian death counts plummet as the driver death rate rockets up.

[confused2]

Quite a few years ago I had an epiphany while trying to cross a road. I would have been young at the time (under 30). In the UK at that time we had 'sensible' places to cross a road - there will be an island in the middle of the road with no function other than to give pedestrians a safe(ish) place to stand while they wait for a gap in traffic after the gap in the traffic that they've already crossed. The signal that someone wants to cross the road would be someone standing at the side of the road waiting to cross the road. I'm not a big bloke but neither am I a small bloke and when I''m standing waiting to cross a road I don't think anyone with reasonable eyesight could possibly miss the signs. Further down the road were traffic lights. The traffic at the lights was joining snarled up traffic so even the traffic that could move quite often couldn't. At my sensible crossing point the traffic is averaging out at about 5 mph. The cars are maintaining a gap of about three yards and the gap to the safe(ish) reservation point is about five yards. I will come back to this point later.

[stryder]

Even crossing at a crossing isn't necessarily safe. Some time ago I had a very near one as a pedestrian, I put the problem up to a mixture of being side-tracked with also waiting for a crossing queue that didn't exist to aid in my crossing intensions.

What I mean is one set of lights in the town I'm in has a high pitched sound that's used for those that are partially sighted in knowing when the crossing is about to be switched back to giving way to road traffic, the problem was the set of lights I was crossing at a little further along the very same road was never fitted with the high pitched sound. Now while I'm not blind or partially sighted, I do reason that on a subconscious level I was actually utilising the sound as a queue in crossing (well gauging if I had time to cross before the lights changed)

The problem was on this particular day I started crossing and the lights changed when I was halfway across. an Impatient driver who I was about to pass to complete the crossing decided to speed off, which stopped me moving forwards, the problem then was the car I'd just passed also decided to start moving which cut off my retreat. This meant I was stuck in the middle of the road.

The problem persisted as the cars and buses that came streaming around the corner wouldn't slow, brake or stop, which meant I was literally having to try and have the thinnist of profiles so as not to be hit by speeding car wingmirrors. I swear at the time my observations of time slowed down, it was likely due to the increase of adrenaline and the fact that I was trying to observe if any car was getting any closer to me, eventually though the lights changed again and I was able to get out of the road.

It's made me extremely careful when crossing now to not just rely upon subconscious decisions and to play an active role in crossing, like for instance making sure that drivers are aware if I'm going to scoot across infront of them. (For instance if a driver is moving forwards while looking for traffic and no paying attention to infront of themselves, not to walk infront of them since they will likely keep creeping forwards and be unaware of a sudden pedestrian before it's too late)

[RainbowUnicorn]

Even crossing at a crossing isn't necessarily safe.  Some time ago I had a very near one as a pedestrian, I put the problem up to a mixture of being side-tracked with also waiting for a crossing queue that didn't exist to aid in my crossing intensions.

What I mean is one set of lights in the town I'm in has a high pitched sound that's used for those that are partially sighted in knowing when the crossing is about to be switched back to giving way to road traffic, the problem was the set of lights I was crossing at a little further along the very same road was never fitted with the high pitched sound.  Now while I'm not blind or partially sighted, I do reason that on a subconscious level I was actually utilising the sound as a queue in crossing (well gauging if I had time to cross before the lights changed)

The problem was on this particular day I started crossing and the lights changed when I was halfway across.  an Impatient driver who  I was about to pass to complete the crossing decided to speed off, which stopped me moving forwards, the problem then was the car I'd just passed also decided to start moving which cut off my retreat.  This meant I was stuck in the middle of the road.  

The problem persisted as the cars and buses that came streaming around the corner wouldn't slow, brake or stop, which meant I was literally having to try and have the thinnist of profiles so as not to be hit by speeding car wingmirrors.  I swear at the time my observations of time slowed down, it was likely due to the increase of adrenaline and the fact that I was trying to observe if any car was getting any closer to me, eventually though the lights changed again and I was able to get out of the road.

It's made me extremely careful when crossing now to not just rely upon subconscious decisions and to play an active role in crossing, like for instance making sure that drivers are aware if I'm going to scoot across infront of them.  (For instance if a driver is moving forwards while looking for traffic and no paying attention to infront of themselves, not to walk infront of them since they will likely keep creeping forwards and be unaware of a sudden pedestrian before it's too late)

why does "fair & Reasonable" not apply to road law ?

is it fair & reasonable to not stop to let you exit the dangerous position you had now found yourself in ?
should there be any different behaviour if a large cow walked into the road and stopped ?
infact... legally, i think... there is actual law saying you must slow if stock are crossing or evidently loose(?)

[confused2]

My epiphany story was interrupted by Mrs C2 advising me I had to work in the morning and it was way past my bedtime. I might finish it later. Meanwhile with Stryders story...

I used to be a programmer for a company that dealt with traffic lights and lights at pedestrian crossings. One day we were all told to say nothing to anyone about anything. One of our engineers had been working at a crossing - 'Lights out of order' had been clearly displayed and a blind man had been mown down at the crossing. As part of not being able to repeat what I didn't know I don't know if he was killed but I suspect he was. From the drivers POV there's the defence that the absence of a red stop light is a licence to kill with impunity. From the company point of view we might want to ask whether the beeps indicating 'safe to cross' were disabled. You are invited to guess. Since then I always ask if anybody dies if I foul up before taking on any job.

The kind of crossing mentioned in my epiphany is still fairly common but with the addition of lights. So you cross in two stages. At your crossing you get beeps to indicate safe to cross to the central safe zone and more beeps when when it's safe to cross to the other side. This helps blind people but what if they are also deaf? Result is that you make the beeps VERY LOUD so practically anyone can hear them. The unintended consequence was that non-deaf blind people thought it was their side that was safe to cross when actually it was the other side. We lost quite a few blind people before anyone matched the statistics to the cause.

[Zinjanthropos]

My epiphany story was interrupted by Mrs C2 advising me I had to work in the morning and it was way past my bedtime. I might finish it later. Meanwhile with Stryders story...

I used to be a programmer for a company that dealt with traffic lights and lights at pedestrian crossings. One day we were all told to say nothing to anyone about anything. One of our engineers had been working at a crossing - 'Lights out of order' had been clearly displayed and a blind man had been mown down at the crossing. As part of not being able to repeat what I didn't know I don't know if he was killed but I suspect he was. From the drivers POV there's the defence that the absence of a red stop light is a licence to kill with impunity. From the company point of view we might want to ask whether the beeps indicating 'safe to cross' were disabled. You are invited to guess. Since then I always ask if anybody dies if I foul up before taking on any job.

The kind of crossing mentioned in my epiphany is still fairly common but with the addition of lights. So you cross in two stages. At your crossing you get beeps to indicate safe to cross to the central safe zone and more beeps when when it's safe to cross to the other side. This helps blind people but what if they are also deaf? Result is that you make the beeps VERY LOUD so practically anyone can hear them. The unintended consequence was that non-deaf blind people thought it was their side that was safe to cross when actually it was the other side. We lost quite a few blind people before anyone matched the statistics to the cause.

Good grief, the blind pedestrian is certainly more at risk. Time to put a Boy Scout at every busy intersection.  Can they not train guide dogs to recognize sounds or is that asking too much.?

[confused2]

Good grief, the blind pedestrian is certainly more at risk. Time to put a Boy Scout at every busy intersection. Can they not train guide dogs to recognize sounds or is that asking too much.?

I think the dogs are smart enough not to attempt to cross in front of moving traffic but they also have to do exactly what their owner tells them to do. If the owner hears the (wrong) bleeps and tells the dog to go forward it may be that the dog has to advance even though it knows its a stupid thing to do.

[Zinjanthropos]

Good grief, the blind pedestrian is certainly more at risk. Time to put a Boy Scout at every busy intersection.  Can they not train guide dogs to recognize sounds or is that asking too much.?

I think the dogs are smart enough not to attempt to cross in front of moving traffic but they also have to do exactly what their owner tells them to do. If the owner hears the (wrong) bleeps and tells the dog to go forward it may be that the dog has to advance even though it knows its a stupid thing to do.

Trust....it's what many dead pedestrians had for drivers. The trust that blind people have in the driver must be even greater. Perhaps vision isn't the only key attribute for a guide dog and I would think hearing combined with vision has to be more beneficial than relying on the sight of an animal but I don't know enough about human cognitive skills. Do the blind have a more difficult time putting sound and an animal's vision together than a person equipped with hearing and sight? Sounds like a double impediment for the blind person.