On Meaning

[Ostronomos]

OS, I take it you're no longer a believer in God since you know the deity's existence is real. Weird that we would have something in common re God, not believing that is. In your case it appears that god belief wasn't good enough or meant nothing unless you had proof. So here we are, no proof and your proof means we don't believe. I don't understand why your proof hasn't been shared around the globe so we can put an end to all this confusion. You haven't substituted a belief in your proof for belief in God have you? 

I see absolutely no reason for God to behave so mysteriously. Look at what you had to do just to formulate a proof. Although you still need another human to help you along the way, there isn't really any other choice. You do realize that some very elaborate hoaxes and false ideas have helped make up the mind of many who were disillusioned about God. What makes you think it isn't happening in your case? The proof you sought could be as phoney as Kleenex in a bra cup. I can't understand why God, now that his secret is out, just doesn't come forward and insists that we take the route you followed. It's absurd, like you're being told "it's our little secret". Amazing how the human mind is able to outfox the Almighty and dig out a divine secret . Doesn't sit well with me, so c'mon God, throw us a bone here.

One should not expect a divine revelation to ensue whilst living in the Classical realm as God cannot effect nor interfere with the material universe, hence deism. All that God can do is make himself known via signs or omens or metaphysical activity to the eyes of the observer who has entered the Quantum realm - a realm in which the entanglement of observation with the external world is established. In such a world one sees signs of God or, if one has committed the perfect acts, avatars of God (in mid air). God is limited to the Quantum world and cannot reveal Himself to humanity due to this fact. However, one can mathematically deduce the existence of God.

The assumption of elaborate hoaxes is easily ruled out as the Quantum world is logically and mathematically distinguishable and unique. Macroscopic Quantum effects are not a mysterious thing and thus not beyond reality. Only God is.

[stryder]

One should not expect a divine revelation to ensue whilst living in the Classical realm as God cannot effect nor interfere with the material universe, hence deism.

why...? Is it a personal choice? Are they following a corporate doctrine that suggests interacting with plebs would cause the company problems? Is it due to someone having oversight and therefore a greater authority over them? Is it because of a self invested form of OCD literally limiting the scope of their capacity through their own method of dealing with their own insecurities? Perhaps it's because they are scared that if they interact, the pink unicorn that farts rainbows will lose it's magic?

All that God can do is make himself known via signs or omens or metaphysical activity to the eyes of the observer who has entered the Quantum realm - a realm in which the entanglement of observation with the external world is established. In such a world one sees signs of God or, if one has committed the perfect acts, avatars of God (in mid air). God is limited to the Quantum world and cannot reveal Himself to humanity due to this fact. However, one can mathematically deduce the existence of God.

The assumption of elaborate hoaxes is easily ruled out as the Quantum world is logically and mathematically distinguishable and unique. Macroscopic Quantum effects are not a mysterious thing and thus not beyond reality. Only God is.

The reality is that people have belief systems, people entitle each other to have belief systems (for better or worse). What is true to you will likely be false to someone else. While you might exist in this divergent state and see it as a reality, others will see that reality as a fiction with their own reality taking precedence.

This makes the concepts and belief systems by definition a moot point. If all were to have complete clarity, they would probably have to disregard what they believe their reality to be and hold no expectation to see it for what it truly is. The problem with that of course is as some would term it leads to "Mental Masturbation".

[Ostronomos]

One should not expect a divine revelation to ensue whilst living in the Classical realm as God cannot effect nor interfere with the material universe, hence deism.

why...?    Is it a personal choice?  Are they following a corporate doctrine that suggests interacting with plebs would cause the company problems?  Is it due to someone having oversight and therefore a greater authority over them? Is it because of a self invested form of OCD literally limiting the scope of their capacity through their own method of dealing with their own insecurities?   Perhaps it's because they are scared that if they interact, the pink unicorn that farts rainbows will lose it's magic.

You've become quite skilled at faking wisdom I see.

[quote pid='14528' dateline='1507911706']

The reality is that people have belief systems, people entitle each other to have belief systems (for better or worse).  What is true to you will likely be false to someone else.  While you might exist in this divergent state and see it as a reality, others will see that reality as a fiction with their own reality taking precedence.

This makes the concepts and belief systems by definition a moot point.   If all were to have complete clarity, they would probably have to disregard what they believe their reality to be and hold no expectation to see it for what it truly is.  The problem with that of course is as some would term it leads to "Mental Masturbation".

[/quote]

I agree with the latter. However, consensus reality is shared among everyone, and the concepts of mathematics can shine a light on objective reality. Proof is still proof despite your opposition and cynicism.

[Zinjanthropos]

God is limited to the Quantum world and cannot reveal Himself to humanity due to this fact. 

If one was able to see an actual quantum particle would it have "Made in Heaven" stamped on it? 

As much as I think the quantum world is incorporated into every day life, from thinking to digesting, I don't think there's any chance of God being limited. If God cannot reveal himself to humanity from his quantum world then how does it work in reverse? Why/how are you able to reveal yourself to God in the quantum world from this world while He cannot reveal himself to you? I would think that if you're revealed to God then he is revealed to you and by the looks of things, you don't exist in the quantum world.

[Ostronomos]

God is limited to the Quantum world and cannot reveal Himself to humanity due to this fact. 

If one was able to see an actual quantum particle would it have "Made in Heaven" stamped on it? 

This oversimplification of the infamously complicated science we know as Quantum Mechanics is, in your typical manner, both insensitive, undeserving and discouraging.

As much as I think the quantum world is incorporated into every day life, from thinking to digesting, I don't think there's any chance of God being limited. If God cannot reveal himself to humanity from his quantum world then how does it work in reverse? Why/how are you able to reveal yourself to God in the quantum world from this world while He cannot reveal himself to you? I would think that if you're revealed to God then he is revealed to you and by the looks of things, you don't exist in the quantum world.

The revealing divination is never a two way street. It is earned, not freely granted, and carries a number of risks with it. Which you may possibly imagine. One of which is the close interaction and regrettable familiarization with evil entities (not the Hollywood versions which lack accuracy and do not correspond well with reality's version, although a small subset of movies have got it right).

It is correct to conclude from your premise that if one reveals himself to God then God reveals himself you. Recall the findings of the universe being a hologram. This means that everything in the Quantum world is transparent to God, and this ability makes him omniscient. Where the outside of reality exists nothing or potential, and it being the origin of God (who configures himself as reality), God would reside externally and out of the Classical world.

[Zinjanthropos]

The revealing divination is never a two way street. It is earned, not freely granted, and carries a number of risks with it. Which you may possibly imagine. One of which is the close interaction and regrettable familiarization with evil entities

The more things change the more they remain the same. I guess proof of God is proof of malevolent wisps also. I thought you had something new to say as this is all too familiar. Any religion containing Gods and Bad guys obviously didn't have to prove God to get it right by your account. Starting to sound like a scientific experiment designed to achieve the desired result, leaving out a few things along the way.

Recall the findings of the universe being a hologram. This means that everything in the Quantum world is transparent to God, and this ability makes him omniscient. Where the outside of reality exists nothing or potential, and it being the origin of God (who configures himself as reality), God would reside externally and out of the Classical world.

Again, more of the same. A word salad exaggeration of what religions already think, God is currently unassailable, omniscient, blah, blah, blah. Nothing original here OS. I was hoping your story would be different. All you've proven is that subliminal messages or suggestions help formulate opinion on divinity, not to mention they all sound the same. Gods and evil hobgoblins dominate the pages of religious history and your tale is no different. Means you haven't proven anything other than all religions basically believe the same things and that makes any proof you have highly suspect, IMHO.

[Ostronomos]

The revealing divination is never a two way street. It is earned, not freely granted, and carries a number of risks with it. Which you may possibly imagine. One of which is the close interaction and regrettable familiarization with evil entities

The more things change the more they remain the same. I guess proof of God is proof of malevolent wisps also. I thought you had something new to say as this is all too familiar. Any religion containing Gods and Bad guys obviously didn't have to prove God to get it right by your account. Starting to sound like a scientific experiment designed to achieve the desired result, leaving out a few things along the way.

How is this: my concept of God is that of a conscious spirit that manifests no particular form, and can thus be identified with the universe, in terms of the size of his mind/ spirit. I hope that meets your criteria for something fresh.

Recall the findings of the universe being a hologram. This means that everything in the Quantum world is transparent to God, and this ability makes him omniscient. Where the outside of reality exists nothing or potential, and it being the origin of God (who configures himself as reality), God would reside externally and out of the Classical world.

Again, more of the same. A word salad exaggeration of what religions already think, God is currently unassailable, omniscient, blah, blah, blah. Nothing original here OS. I was hoping your story would be different. All you've proven is that subliminal messages or suggestions help formulate opinion on divinity, not to mention they all sound the same. Gods and evil hobgoblins dominate the pages of religious history and your tale is no different. Means you haven't proven anything other than all religions basically believe the same things and that makes any proof you have highly suspect, IMHO.

But it doesn't. Any analysis on God that is consistent with religion has a solid foundation to back it up. Religious discussions the majority of the time tend to be about God and his attributes, hence there exists a standard by which the individual's analysis must meet or it becomes a mere opinion. I did not formulate an opinion, I formulated an analysis of reality based on observation.

[Zinjanthropos]

Any analysis on God that is consistent with religion has a solid foundation to back it up. Religious discussions the majority of the time tend to be about God and his attributes, hence there exists a standard by which the individual's analysis must meet or it becomes a mere opinion. I did not formulate an opinion, I formulated an analysis of reality based on observation.

You said you needed to be perfect to find God yet the ancients managed to do exactly what you've done and come to the same conclusions. So am I to believe all religions originated from a human state of perfection that even the earliest of our ancestors managed to achieve without any knowledge you possess about God's quantum world? I would have to say that if true, either God has made access to himself more stringent than in the past or requiring perfection is total bunk. 

Formulating an analysis of reality based on observation of the quantum world is not the most reliable method. Is there one? Wave function collapse, duality, super positioning, tunnelling, probabilities, quantum fuzziness, etc don't exactly add up to a clear and concise analysis of reality. Yet somehow you've managed? Don't think so.

I was hoping for something new but when you started talking about your observations it wasn't hard to see they matched up with contemporary religion and even to some religions of the past. You've gone through this tough mental exercise to reach the same conclusions of people who never had to do what you've done. This rings the alarm for me and I cannot help but think you have been influenced over the years by all the theistic religions this world has ever known. 

I mean no disrespect and I applaud people who aren't afraid to post their feelings on a public board. Nothing personal, I'm a born skeptic.

[Ostronomos]

Perfection is only necessary to see God or to summon Him. It's a special mix of energies and brain chemistry that is non-accidental and impossible to achieve by almost all of humanity. To know God requires spirituality.

[Secular Sanity]

In Islam it is said that God makes himself accessible or reachable to the perfect human. I have temporarily reached perfection and have accessed God a great many times so I have confirmed his existence.

Too funny!  Sounds like Syne's transcendent experience.

Put a good word in for me, will ya, Ostonomos?