Feelings

[confused2]

does happiness require constant endorphine production ?
people who do not have the ability to make endorphines are never happy ?
is it possible to be happy without endorphines ?

I'm going with yes,yes,no. I did once know a heroin addict - I don't think (I have to guess here) the drug made him any happier than he would have been without it but the absence of the drug certainly made him less happy. At the time (1980ish) he was hopeful that computers would advance to the point where he could be transferred into a vat (as of Brain in a Vat) within his lifetime. His vision was that the 'vat' would be purely a computer program giving immortality without the need for any messy biology.

"is happy just a state of drug influence on the mind like marijuana herion cocaine mdma ?"

There have been times when I have been 'fairly sure' the people around me would watch my back if push came to shove. That was something of a happiness inducing state. In reality it seems the chain of loyalties stretched from in front to behind my back but I was not to know that at the time.

"species selection via darwinian evolution relys on survival not happinnes"

How much better is evolution going to work if every member of the species is trying to do something amazing rather than just staying alive? Evolution is going to select for it - ?


"nest building might be a mental illness in birds.
the birds may actually hate building the nests and might be in a state of constant pain & suffering while nest building. "

While the local nest was being built there were often three or more gulls watching. They might have been hoping for a good laugh when it failed but I suggest it is more likely they were watching to see how it was done. I'm staying with the notion that the satisfaction of a job well done is as much a factor in evolution as the sharp pointed stick of failure.

Sadly the eggs haven't hatched and the nest has been abandoned. As SS will be keen to point out - must'a been a low-T male.

[RainbowUnicorn]

does happiness require constant endorphine production ?
people who do not have the ability to make endorphines are never happy ?
is it possible to be happy without endorphines ?

I'm going with yes,yes,no. I did once know a heroin addict - I don't think (I have to guess here) the drug made him any happier than he would have been without it but the absence of the drug certainly made him less happy. At the time (1980ish) he was hopeful that computers would advance to the point where he could be transferred into a vat (as of Brain in a Vat) within his lifetime. His vision was that the 'vat' would be purely a computer program giving immortality without the need for any messy biology.

"is happy just a state of drug influence on the mind like marijuana herion cocaine mdma ?"

There have been times when I have been 'fairly sure' the people around me would watch my back if push came to shove. That was something of a happiness inducing state. In reality it seems the chain of loyalties stretched from in front to behind my back but I was not to know that at the time.

"species selection via darwinian evolution relys on survival not happinnes"

How much better is evolution going to work if every member of the species is trying to do something amazing rather than just staying alive? Evolution is going to select for it - ?


"nest building might be a mental illness in birds.
the birds may actually hate building the nests and might be in a state of constant pain & suffering while nest building. "

While the local nest was being built there were often three or more gulls watching. They might have been hoping for a good laugh when it failed but I suggest it is more likely they were watching to see how it was done. I'm staying with the notion that the satisfaction of a job well done is as much a factor in evolution as the sharp pointed stick of failure.

Sadly the eggs haven't hatched and the nest has been abandoned. As SS will be keen to point out - must'a been a low-T male.

Totally agree with your comment about "amazing".

The Seagulls may have eaten one of the eggs or the 1st hatched & then the parent birds might have abandonned the nest.
or chased the parent birds off enough times for the eggs to lose incubation temperature.

focussing on the math side of the discusion
low seratonin not no seratonin = depresion (generically speaking?)
thus one could argue it is not the singular chemical turning on or off, (for philisophical debate not clinical)but the balance of volumetric chemicals .... a "soup" of sorts.

thus(attempting to remain as non clinical as possible) behavioural pathology(life style atributes like socialisation & food & exercise & various routines) has shown to produce depresion/sadness

if we were to posit the norm to be standardised in a state of neutrality the ethereal would be what ? a thought ?
"i think a happy thought there for i am happy" ?
Vs
"i feel there for i must define myself"


RE Carol .. yes talking about your feelings is very important generically speaking. the frontal lobe fluid cognition of the feelings being manifest to discriptive forms allows a sense of seperation to denote ones conceptual understanding of causative atributes.
i might ponder this being a good way to innitiate subjective self care by empathic transferance as a proxy perception paradigm.
(that makes me ponder if anyone has studied that as a possible inclusive idiom of Borderline personality disorder as a form of schizophrenia.... e.g the innability to think about yourself from a 3rd person perspective may inhibit your ability to manage and deal with emotional issues)

[Carol]

does happiness require constant endorphine production ?
people who do not have the ability to make endorphines are never happy ?
is it possible to be happy without endorphines ?

I'm going with yes,yes,no. I did once know a heroin addict - I don't think (I have to guess here) the drug made him any happier than he would have been without it but the absence of the drug certainly made him less happy. At the time (1980ish) he was hopeful that computers would advance to the point where he could be transferred into a vat (as of Brain in a Vat) within his lifetime. His vision was that the 'vat' would be purely a computer program giving immortality without the need for any messy biology.

"is happy just a state of drug influence on the mind like marijuana herion cocaine mdma ?"

There have been times when I have been 'fairly sure' the people around me would watch my back if push came to shove. That was something of a happiness inducing state. In reality it seems the chain of loyalties stretched from in front to behind my back but I was not to know that at the time.

"species selection via darwinian evolution relys on survival not happinnes"

How much better is evolution going to work if every member of the species is trying to do something amazing rather than just staying alive? Evolution is going to select for it - ?


"nest building might be a mental illness in birds.
the birds may actually hate building the nests and might be in a state of constant pain & suffering while nest building. "

While the local nest was being built there were often three or more gulls watching. They might have been hoping for a good laugh when it failed but I suggest it is more likely they were watching to see how it was done. I'm staying with the notion that the satisfaction of a job well done is as much a factor in evolution as the sharp pointed stick of failure.

Sadly the eggs haven't hatched and the nest has been abandoned. As SS will be keen to point out - must'a been a low-T male.

Totally agree with your comment about "amazing".

The Seagulls may have eaten one of the eggs or the 1st hatched & then the parent birds might have abandonned the nest.
or chased the parent birds off enough times for the eggs to lose incubation temperature.

focussing on the math side of the discusion
low seratonin not no seratonin = depresion (generically speaking?)
thus one could argue it is not the singular chemical turning on or off, (for philisophical debate not clinical)but the balance of volumetric chemicals .... a "soup" of sorts.

thus(attempting to remain as non clinical as possible) behavioural pathology(life style atributes like socialisation & food & exercise & various routines) has shown to produce depresion/sadness

if we were to posit the norm to be standardised in a state of neutrality the ethereal would be what ? a thought ?
"i think a happy thought there for i am happy" ?
Vs
"i feel there for i must define myself"


RE Carol .. yes talking about your feelings is very important generically speaking. the frontal lobe fluid cognition of the feelings being manifest to discriptive forms allows a sense of seperation to denote ones conceptual understanding of causative atributes.
i might ponder this being a good way to innitiate subjective self care by empathic transferance as a proxy perception paradigm.
(that makes me ponder if anyone has studied that as a possible inclusive idiom of Borderline personality disorder as a form of schizophrenia.... e.g the innability to think about yourself from a 3rd person perspective may inhibit your ability to manage and deal with emotional issues)

Interesting replies.     I didn't think the crows were watching the nest building to learn how it is done, nor to get a good laugh if something went wrong, and I did want it to be because they were waiting for a meal, but it looks like that was their interest.   Nice observation of bird behavior!     

RainbowUnicorn, let us not forget oxytocin the love hormone.  

Thinking about our feelings can ruin them.  I had a euphoric experience the first time I saw a well-stocked computer store and I tried to write down the experience and feeling,  and the more I focused on the feeling, the dimmer it got, so the more I more I focused it and I completely lost it.  Like "trying" to go to sleep can make it impossible for us to sleep.  

Speculating about a personality disorder being the inability to think of one's self in the third person is interesting.  

There are so many interesting things that have been brought up.  I hate to run and hope to be back soon.