Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’

[Zinjanthropos]

I would like to have met Erwin. He seemed to get it, IMHO.

I think the reason people see things differently is mainly due to evolution. Just because humans see things one way doesn't mean all animals are the same. When you look at the stripes of a zebra it's hard to think that all other creatures see as we do. And what about us, was it necessary in the past for our ancestors to see the world differently if only to catch prey, attract a mate, etc. Perhaps the vestigial remnants of past visualization occasionally resurfaces, like an extended tailbone. How many ways are there to see the world? Doesn't matter, the one that improves your species chances of survival is all that's necessary.

[Syne]

SS.....Always liked TED. O'Connell like many others talks about particles being in two places at the same time. What about same particles from different times existing at same time? (Not sure if I'm phrasing this correctly, hope you get my drift)

Bosons, like photons, are not subject to the Pauli exclusion principle, which is what keeps fermions, such as electrons, from occupying the same quantum state as the same time. But time in quantum mechanics is an absolute, so there is no sense in which different times could interact. Time is an a priori given that quantum states are calculated from.

Yep, photons.  

Do you think this is a correct statement, Zinman?

Nothing happens at once.  At once is not everywhere.  Only light is everywhere and everywhere at once.

Sounds like nonsense. The quantum state includes position, so sharing quantum states also shares the same space (to the extent that you may attempt to measure it). Light could only be considered to be "everywhere" if the evolution of its wavefunction is sufficiently spread out and remains unobserved.

[Secular Sanity]

Sounds like nonsense. The quantum state includes position, so sharing quantum states also shares the same space (to the extent that you may attempt to measure it). Light could only be considered to be "everywhere" if the evolution of its wavefunction is sufficiently spread out and remains unobserved.

It was a craft project, Syne, not an exact science. It was a play on relativity, the path integral formulation, particles being in two places at once, occupying the same space, and the fact that darkness does not exist.

I can’t be fake.  I just can’t, but I want to maintain my relationships with my spiritual friends and family.  So, I try to be creative.  Capiche?

Do you like what Rodolfo Llinas said?

"I can imagine a religion saying that matter and energy is God. It’s a beautiful thought, but instead of understanding what you are, you want to be what you’re not. However, it’s just because you don’t understand how precious, and absolutely incredible matter is, or how precious you are. Just because we can understand feelings from a material point of view, people view it as though it somehow demeans our nature."

Or Rabbi Moshe Levin?

"The Talmud makes a statement: Every person should walk through life with two notes, one in each pocket. On one note should be the words, Ani afar ve‘efer—I am nothing but dust and ashes. On the other note should be the words, Bishvili nivra ha’olam—For my sake was this world created.

Those two notes are in complete contradiction to one another, yet the Talmud says they both are true. Here is what they mean to me. When I sit on a bench facing the shore where I live and watch the waves roll in and look at the endless sky, I become aware of how insignificant I am. All this was here millions of years before me and will go on millions of years after I am gone. In the face of the eternity of time, I am not even a radar blip, I‘m not even a point on the line. I am totally insignificant. Therefore, if I am to live to 85 instead of 58, so what? My death, like my life, means nothing in the long run. Even the pain my family would feel would be lost in the full long scheme of things. Ani afar ve’efer—I am nothing but dust and ashes.

On the other hand, Bishvili nivra ha’olam—for my sake the whole world was created! I am so significant, I am so important, so critical, that all this is worth being just so I can experience it! Can you imagine, what a miracle we all are, just by being? The mathematical probability, said Albert Einstein, of my being born as who I am, is not .000000001; it is zero! Yet I am here. And every moment of life is a miracle beyond my comprehension! That I can see those waves, that I can walk on that shore, that I can smell that sea, that I can gaze on a sunset. These are experiences that quadrillions of souls never had and never will! I am in Awe of this universe and of my presence in it. Every moment of life is a miracle! And we must never forget that! That’s the lesson of cancer, or any life-threatening disease! The magnificence of the moment! Should I complain after having been granted so many moments of this, even one moment of being? Certainly not! And if I choose to complain, to be bitter about the probability that I will not make it to 80, what should I say to those young people in Turkey who were buried in the earthquake, or to the children who were shot by militia in East Timor, or those infants in any hospital’s critical-care neonatal unit? How many of them would give everything just to live long enough to be a lymphoma patient at the age of 57? Sure, it would be nice to live to 90. But if I’m not grateful for reaching my age and having all the magnificent blessings that have been and are still mine, then I know nothing of life. I stand each day in awe of my own existence, which frankly is beyond my comprehension. I cannot truly fully grasp the realization that I am. How long I am is not nearly as significant as that I am, now, and have been for so long already."

[Syne]

Nope. If you want to pretend to post about science, that's your prerogative. But you can't expect the more knowledgeable not to call you on misrepresentations and errors. That would be a disservice to other readers.

[Secular Sanity]

I think the reason people see things differently is mainly due to evolution.

And language.

How does language shape the way we think?

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But you can't expect the more knowledgeable not to call you on misrepresentations and errors.

Oh, and that would be you, eh?

Did you like what they said? Yes? No?

[Syne]

But you can't expect the more knowledgeable not to call you on misrepresentations and errors.

Oh, and that would be you, eh?

Did you like what they said?  Yes? No?

I've demonstrated my knowledge of physics many times....and you know it.

And I couldn't care less about your non-sequitur quotes.

[Secular Sanity]

But you can't expect the more knowledgeable not to call you on misrepresentations and errors.

Oh, and that would be you, eh?

I've demonstrated my knowledge of physics many times....and you know it.

And you’ve been wrong on several occasions.

Did you like what they said?  Yes? No?

And I couldn't care less about your non-sequitur quotes.

Enough with your non-sequitur shit.  It gets old.  I’m just trying to help you understand others.  You know, with all of that unlimited potential of yours.

An asshole is one thing, but a megalomaniac is a whole new ball game.

Simmer down, boy.

[Syne]

Aw, SS is miffed because I won't take her self-righteous nonsense seriously. Tough.

And please, do show where I've been wrong about physics, especially in comparison to you.

[Secular Sanity]

Aw, SS is miffed because I won't take her self-righteous nonsense seriously. Tough.

And please, do show where I've been wrong about physics, especially in comparison to you.

You’re the one always throwing self-righteous barbs at atheists, homosexuals, and women.

You made quite a few errors at the old place, but you don’t remember things posted by anonymous people on the internet, do you?

Explain to me how those quotes are self-righteous? I liked them, especially the one from the Rabbi.

[Syne]

Yeah, I do make errors on occasion, just not against you on physics...or much else.

I said those quotes were non-sequitur. I never said they were self-righteous.