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Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - Printable Version +- Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum (https://www.scivillage.com) +-- Forum: Science (https://www.scivillage.com/forum-61.html) +--- Forum: Chemistry, Physics & Mathematics (https://www.scivillage.com/forum-77.html) +--- Thread: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ (/thread-3689.html) |
Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - C C - May 21, 2017 Where do numbers come from? http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2017/05/20/where-do-numbers-come-from/ EXCERPT: When I was addressing this lunacy about how God exists because minds and mathematics are supernatural, I was also thinking about a related set of questions: biologically, how are numbers represented in the brain? How did this ability evolve? I knew there was some interesting work by Ramachandran on the representation of digits and numerical processing, coupled to his work on synesthesia (which is also about how we map abstract ideas on a biological substrate), but I was wondering how I can have a concept of something as abstract as a number — as I sit in my office, I can count the vertical slats in my window blinds, and see that there are 27 of them. How did I do that? Is there a register in my head that’s storing a tally as I counted them? Do I have a mental abacus that’s summing everything up? And then I realized all the automatic associations with the number 27. It’s an odd number — where is that concept in my cortex? It’s 33. It’s the atomic weight of cobalt, the sum of the digits 2 and 7 is 9, the number of bones in the human hand, 2 times 7 is 14, 27 is 128, my daughter’s age, 1927 was the year Philo Farnsworth first experimentally transmitted television pictures. It’s freakin’ weird if you think about. 27 isn’t even a thing, even though we have a label and a symbol for it, and yet it’s all wrapped up in ideas and connections and causes sensations in my mind. And why do I have a representation of “27” in my head? It’s not as if this was ever useful to my distant ancestors — they didn’t need to understand that there were precisely 27 antelope over on that hillside, they just needed an awareness that there were many antelope, let’s go kill one and eat it. Or here are 27 mangoes; we don’t need to count them, we need to sort them by ripeness, or throw out the ones that are riddled with parasites. I don’t need a map of “27” to be able to survive. How did this ability evolve? MORE: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2017/05/20/where-do-numbers-come-from/ (video) How quantum superposition could unravel the ‘grandfather paradox’ https://aeon.co/videos/how-quantum-superposition-could-unravel-the-grandfather-paradox INTRO: The ‘grandfather paradox’ has long been one of the most popular thought experiments in physics: you travel back in time and murder your grandfather before he’s ever born. If you’ve killed your grandfather, you’ve prevented your own existence, but if you never existed, how could you have committed the murder in the first place? Some physicists have avoided the question by arguing that backwards time travel simply isn’t consistent with the laws of physics, or by asserting a ‘many worlds’ interpretation of the Universe. But could the concept of quantum superposition remove what seems so paradoxical from this tale of time travel and murder once and for all? RE: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - Zinjanthropos - May 21, 2017 If I were to travel back in time then would not the physical components that comprise me then be occupying two places at once? In the time I'm returning to, those particles could exist anywhere. If particles from one time come in contact with themselves in another time then what happens? Imagine going back in time equipped with the means to prevent asteroids from slamming into Earth 65 million years ago. If tt is possible then I think we somehow move around as shadow observers, slightly out of phase. If that's what they mean by juxtapose then I can go for that. RE: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - Secular Sanity - May 22, 2017 Twisted Time Travel (short story) Making sense of a visible quantum object - Aaron O'Connell RE: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - Zinjanthropos - May 22, 2017 SS.....Always liked TED. O'Connell like many others talks about particles being in two places at the same time. What about same particles from different times existing at same time? (Not sure if I'm phrasing this correctly, hope you get my drift) RE: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - RainbowUnicorn - May 22, 2017 [quote pid='11554' dateline='1495334621'] (video) How quantum superposition could unravel the ‘grandfather paradox’ https://aeon.co/videos/how-quantum-superposition-could-unravel-the-grandfather-paradox INTRO: The ‘grandfather paradox’ has long been one of the most popular thought experiments in physics: you travel back in time and murder your grandfather before he’s ever born. If you’ve killed your grandfather, you’ve prevented your own existence, but if you never existed, how could you have committed the murder in the first place? Some physicists have avoided the question by arguing that backwards time travel simply isn’t consistent with the laws of physics, or by asserting a ‘many worlds’ interpretation of the Universe. But could the concept of quantum superposition remove what seems so paradoxical from this tale of time travel and murder once and for all? [/quote] if conception of life is the Gravitus of attoms then lack of gravitus does not equate to lack of attoms. RE: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - Zinjanthropos - May 22, 2017 I tend to think of life as all life forms everywhere. If I think of life's grip on the cosmos and as a fail safe measure evolving a life form that can send life back in time, then it's trying to do what must be done to maintain itself, never suffering complete eradication even should the universe die in another time. Life is pretty special stuff when you think of it. RE: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - Secular Sanity - May 22, 2017 (May 22, 2017 06:42 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: SS.....Always liked TED. O'Connell like many others talks about particles being in two places at the same time. What about same particles from different times existing at same time? (Not sure if I'm phrasing this correctly, hope you get my drift) Yep, photons. Do you think this is a correct statement, Zinman? Nothing happens at once. At once is not everywhere. Only light is everywhere and everywhere at once. Hey, C C changed her avatar. Nioce!
RE: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - Zinjanthropos - May 22, 2017 CC has to stop reminding whites that it's all their fault. lol Do I think your quote to be correct? Nothing happens at once: as in everything doesn't happen at once? Otherwise when nothing happens it will be at once(the same time). At once is not everywhere: if nothing is happening then it's the same everywhere at once. Once being a measure of time and everywhere is an area/volume of space Only light is everywhere and everywhere at once: everywhere? Does BB singularity count as everywhere and everything in one neat little package. If so then yes, all still here in a bigger package, or so it seems. RE: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - Secular Sanity - May 23, 2017 (May 22, 2017 10:03 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Do I think your quote to be correct? Nah, relativity and Feynman’s QED. Remember that discussion about photons not experiencing time? Well, the indeterminacy of the path is realized by a quantum particle existing in all possible paths simultaneously, or metaphorically speaking, the single particle simultaneously take all possible paths. I have few…um…so-called spiritual friends. I just came up with it to put it on candles for gifts. You print out a quote or picture, place it on the candle, and put a piece of ordinary wax paper over it. Heat it up with a heat gun, pull off the wax paper, and voila!
RE: Where do numbers come from? + Quantum superposition could unravel ‘grandpa paradox’ - Zinjanthropos - May 23, 2017 (May 23, 2017 02:59 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote:(May 22, 2017 10:03 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Do I think your quote to be correct? Just remember, you asked. I always like Feynman's explanation but ....It's context. Thought it was a trick question. I mean if nothing is happening then nothing is happening everywhere. How can there be something happening anywhere when nothing's happening? At once is a moment in time, not a volume/area of space. If the universe contains everything then it stands to reason anything hasn't gone anywhere. Is it leaking? Feynman had some cool diagrams. |