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UK remains in EU (A "Dewey defeats Truman!" moment for Wall Street hopes)

#11
stryder Offline
(Jun 25, 2016 04:44 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Listening to the pundits, one gets the sense that this wave of isolationism is not limited to the UK but may extend to other countries as well. Comparisons are made with the populist xenophobia of Trump. It seems a mass reaction to the recent influx of Syrian immigrants in Europe and an attempt to reassert white privelege and domination in these countries. Could racism be at the root of all this? The age-old attempt of the paler races to segregate and escape living with the darker skinned races? Look for the typical scapegoating of immigrants for economic hardship, unemployment, crime, disease, etc.

Isn't Nationalism just a more PC form of Racism?

Still the effect of a Brexit is what some people banked on (quite literally) after all without a drastic political change, economics doesn't swing violently enough for those that want to short trade.  They get their wish for the time being, the question of course gets raised as to who's expense?

I don't think they really tallied how much money has been spent over the years on trying to get the EU off the ground, what work has already been achieved.  I know it's seen as an "Escalation of Commitment (wikipedia.org)" (Which I learnt of some years ago while looking into the LSE Torus project (wikipedia.org) as apart of failed business analysis.)

In some respects not trying to work through it and find a resolution that was on track with where we were attempting to head previously just shows a mixture of ignorance and cowardice.  A white feather (wikipedia.org) for their troubles.


[Image: jackfeather.png]
[Image: jackfeather.png]

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#12
C C Offline
(Jun 25, 2016 04:44 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Listening to the pundits, one gets the sense that this wave of isolationism is not limited to the UK but may extend to other countries as well. Comparisons are made with the populist xenophobia of Trump. It seems a mass reaction to the recent influx of Syrian immigrants in Europe and an attempt to reassert white privelege and domination in these countries. Could racism be at the root of all this? The age-old attempt of the paler races to segregate and escape living with the darker skinned races? Look for the typical scapegoating of immigrants for economic hardship, unemployment, crime, disease, etc.


On BBC news segments I occasionally watched long before this, it was a flood of Polish and other white workers from Eastern Europe that native UK laborers were often depicted as largely expressing subdued reactions to in scattered communities. As the newcomers took away their jobs or diminished pay by working for less. Also wealthy immigrants in some areas were buying out home properties and raising prices that beforehand would have been affordable to lesser income families. [Palestinians and Jews are both deemed semetic peoples, but that didn't stop the Palestinians from becoming enraged when a tsunami of Zionism took over their strip of land in the early 20th century and they got demoted to and being treated like second-class citizens on their own turf.]

Globalism and mega free-trade contracts / relationships enter the picture from the standpoint of such being blamed (whether rightly or wrongly) for contributing to the ever more wealthy class of super-rich, eroding away the middle class. A universal "banana republic" situation looming on the horizon of there only being two significant divisions: An upper class featuring an elite subsection currently / popularly referred to as the so-called 1%; and a lower class, with a growing subsection of extreme poverty in the latter.

There was also emigration concerns: Significant numbers of native Brits were leaving for Australia, the US, etc.

Others dismiss migration as even being the key factor. The EU had been seen more and more as either a potential failure in the future or growing more powerful in its demands. Britain has always valued its sovereignty and quasi-distinct identity from the continent, so it was deemed inevitable by many that Brits would eventually lose their love-affair with or tolerance for the EU.

But even the latter probably partly goes back to the globalism factor. The older population (which played a large role in the vote) probably had a fear that Brexit needed to take place soon before the UK had its traditional culture washed out from expanding waves of EU-facilitated immigration (and emigration). And from a millennial population that was educated / conditioned to favor the pro-internationalism desires of big business, financial institutions, and society-integrating political movements of government entities which the EU (supposedly) exemplified.

Going back to the working class: Europe had the history of a class system which was still lingering around to an extent when and after the Titanic sank. Which ironically seems to have passed on to this day a sense of pride to ordinary laborers for staying in and valuing their "place" on the social status ladder (i.e., they don't tend to self-loathe or denigrate themselves for their fixed skills and income levels as poorer workers in the US do for not crawling out of their particular crab bucket and becoming more successful). So there's still a potent fellowship reaction at the grassroots level among laborers to take action against threats to their jobs / pay, which can defy even their applicable party or government leaders' assurances that extremes aren't necessary (as in the case of Brexit).
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#13
Yazata Offline
(Jun 25, 2016 04:44 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Listening to the pundits, one gets the sense that this wave of isolationism is not limited to the UK but may extend to other countries as well.

Well, it isn't "isolationism", for one thing. It's democracy. It's a yearning for freedom, a desire to rule one's self and not be ruled by others. It's the founding principle of the United States, what motivated our Revolution.

Freeing itself from the EU's 'regulations' and 'directives', from European Court of Justice rulings taking precedence over British law, does't 'isolate' Britain. It just reasserts its political independence, its own control over its own affairs.

But yes, the same kind of feelings that led to Brexit in the UK appear to be widespread throughout the EU. Large minorities (and majorities in some countries) want their own referendums on leaving the EU. Euro-skeptic nationalist parties are on the rise in just about every European country. If there's one thing that the people of the EU share in common, it seems to be distrust of the EU and its agenda.

In my opinion, the underlying dynamic everywhere is the people vs their ruling elites. There's a consensus of elite opinion that dominates the media, journalism, political parties, business, finance and academia, that the average citizen no longer feels has their own interests at heart. My feeling is that most Europeans don't even know who actually controls the EU, who makes its decisions in the 'European Commission' or whatever it is in Brussels, and certainly don't feel that those rulers operate in their interest.

So there's a growing desire to be free of it, just as much of middle America longs to be free of the control of the ruling elites of the New York City-Washington DC axis.      

Quote:Comparisons are made with the populist xenophobia of Trump.

As far as I'm concerned. "populism" is just a perjorative term for 'democracy'. It means paying attention to what the people want. 'Power to the People'. The alternative is 'oligarchy'.

And it isn't 'xenophobia' to require that foreigners who want to enter a particular country to obey that country's immigration law. Any would-be immigrant needs to demonstrate that they are willing to recognize and honor the laws of the place they want to move. That should be a bottom-line precondition for entry.

Quote:It seems a mass reaction to the recent influx of Syrian immigrants in Europe and an attempt to reassert white privelege and domination in these countries.

British Euro-skepticism existed long before the recent migrant crisis. But yes, the migrant crisis was probably a factor in pushing 'Leave' over the top. It isn't 'racism' for a country to want to have control over its own immigration policies and to tailor them in the interest of that country's people, not the interest of whatever foreigners want to enter. Angela Merkel ignored that because she felt sorry for the migrants, and then tried to enforce her moral feelings on the rest of the EU, shaking the European vision to its foundations. (Germany has a habit of doing that.)
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#14
Yazata Offline
Tomorrow the UK officially regains its sovereignty and independence.

Hopefully they can maintain constructive and cooperative relations with the EU, but that's up to the EU at this point. Does the EU want to wank off in a spasm of vindictiveness so as to turn the UK into an object lesson to scare the rest of their members into "Don't even think about leaving our happy family (or we'll hurt you real bad!)"?

(If the EU goes that route, the US, Australia, Japan and others will be happy to help a newly independent UK. It's not like the EU is the only game in town.)

Here's a video that kind of sums up the current political dynamic on both sides of the Atlantic. It explains Trump as well as Brexit, and how the "populists" have captured the the rebel anti-establishment "Power to the People!" edginess that was once the province of Labour.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je4g7QBpfzM&app=desktop

And it was all entirely avoidable.

Leadership that supposedly represents the will of the people can't be too visibly disdainful of those same people and can't insist on leading people whose votes they depend on to places where the people don't want to go.

That's what Democracy is all about. No matter how "woke" and righteous would-be "leaders" imagine themselves to be, they forget those who they serve at their own peril.
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#15
Syne Offline
It's long past time. Welcome to your own sovereignty again, Brits!



Just noticed this:
(Jun 25, 2016 07:13 PM)stryder Wrote: Isn't Nationalism just a more PC form of Racism?

No, that's why there is "white nationalism", which is racist. Nationalism is just preferring your own country to others, which should be the default of any free people. If you don't prefer your own country, you likely have no power to better it, because the self-styled elites who rule don't listen, and you have no will to oust those elites. This is why there is mass exodus from many countries. No national loyalty, at least none to the point of organizing a revolution.
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