BBC anti-Trump disinformation

[Syne]

Again, in the US, you are not guilty of inciting unless you call for specific action. All of those people were adults, responsible for their own actions. If vague terms like "fight like hell" were enough, many Democrats would have already be up on charges long before Jan 6th. But I bet the BBC never let Brits know about the relevant laws or the past Democrat statements.

[Yazata]

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[Yazata]

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/2sL7zVgUOAA

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Last two pages of the demand letter that President Trump's attorneys served on the BBC

People are saying that this puts the BBC in the unenviable position of either settling on President Trump's terms, or else opening up all of their internal communications regarding him to discovery.

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FAFO in the flesh

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[confused2]

Believed accurate (by me) .. from-
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/10/polit...t-timeline

10:47 a.m.
[Setting the tone for the crowd]
Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani begins his speech at the Ellipse rally, urges lawmakers to overturn the election, and tells the crowd, “let’s have trial by combat.”

Before 12 p.m.
[Establishing weapons are being allowed into the area]
Trump tells his staff to “take the f**king mags away,” referring to the metal detectors at the security line for his Ellipse rally, because the rallygoers were “not here to hurt me,”
[Speculation - he allowed or intended that the weapons could be used to hurt other people ]

Syne makes the point that all of those people were adults, responsible for their own actions. He does not make the point that Trump is President of the United States and is therefore cast as a leader of men .. should his words carry weight (as leader) or can he rightly claim to be no more than a delusional old fool?


Around 1 p.m.
[After Trump's speech has started but before the end]
Pro-Trump rioters – including members of the Proud Boys, a far-right extremist group – overrun the first set of barriers outside the Capitol and start rushing toward the building. Top White House staffers, including Meadows, are quickly alerted by the US Secret Service that the police lines are collapsing at the Capitol.

1:10 p.m.
As he ends his speech at the Ellipse, Trump calls for supporters to “walk down Pennsylvania Avenue” [knowing they have weapons] and march to the Capitol. He also tells the crowd that he will be marching with them. Around the same time, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, a California Republican and Trump ally, calls Hutchinson and angrily tells her not to let Trump go to the Capitol, according to Hutchinson’s testimony.

1:?? p.m.
Trump is not driven to the Capitol.

Anecdodatlly we hear of Trump screaming,
“I’m the f**king President. Take me up to the Capitol now.”
Whether true or not it seems Trump believes that he is the POTUS and people should obey his instructions - the (almost) final and most memorable of his instructions to the crowd he has just addressed in his capacity as POTUS being-
"And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore."

As part of his delusion he then (and apparently still) believes anyone defying his wishes will or should suffer - whether it be "not having a country" or (Mike Pence) .. hung.

1:19 p.m.
Trump arrives back at the White House. During the short drive back from the Ellipse, Trump becomes irate and demands to be driven to the Capitol, but members of his security team refuse to take him there, according to Hutchinson, who testified that she was told about the exchange by Ornato and another member of Trump’s security detail.

While the riot is in progress..

.. Meadows and Cipollone returned from their talk with the President. No statement was forthcoming.
“Mark, we need to do something more. They’re literally calling for the Vice President to be [fucking] hung,” Hutchinson heard Cipollone say.
“You heard him, Pat,” Meadows replied. “He thinks Mike deserves it.
He doesn’t think they’re doing anything wrong.”

More: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-...RT-2-7.pdf

In the light of the reports I have used.. Trump can claim that he has no responsibility for leading a crowd to the Capitol (knowing them to be armed) - because his security team prevented him from doing so. I don't know how much credit the BBC gave to the security team for preventing a delusional old narcissist from causing great harm to the United States - hopefully that will be the subject of the next documentary.

Edit ..
I see Trump has pardoned Rudy Giuliani
As Leavitt doesn't say..
Trial by combat has no place in a democracy.

[C C]

Believed accurate (by me) .. from-
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/10/polit...t-timeline

[...] Around 1 p.m.
[After Trump's speech has started but before the end]
Pro-Trump rioters – including members of the Proud Boys, a far-right extremist group – overrun the first set of barriers outside the Capitol and start rushing toward the building. Top White House staffers, including Meadows, are quickly alerted by the US Secret Service that the police lines are collapsing at the Capitol.

Yah, the Proud Boys and other groups were already near the base of the Capitol stairs before Trump began his speech to the Ellipse audience. By the time the speech ended, the start of the riot was in progress.

Proud Boys rallied to ‘take the Capitol’ before Trump’s January 6 speech, prosecutors say
https://www.the-independent.com/news/wor...61162.html

EXCERPTS: Assistant US Attorney Jason McCullough said the group did not intend to listen to the president’s speech; they had always planned to lead a crowd to the Capitol to forcibly stop the transfer of presidential power.

“They hoped the ‘normies’ – that is, the civilians – would burn the city to ash,” he told jurors on 12 January.

[...] Mr Trump began his speech to a rally crowd at 11.57am.

At 1.49pm, several Proud Boys – including defendants Dominic Pezzola and Joseph Biggs – began moving towards the base of the stairs at the Capitol near the front of a growing crowd, then pushed a second time up the stairs to get the crowd moving.

BBC video of them moving toward it circa an hour before the speech: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65487230

1:10 p.m.
As he ends his speech at the Ellipse, Trump calls for supporters to “walk down Pennsylvania Avenue” [knowing they have weapons] and march to the Capitol. He also tells the crowd that he will be marching with them. Around the same time, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, a California Republican and Trump ally, calls Hutchinson and angrily tells her not to let Trump go to the Capitol, according to Hutchinson’s testimony.

The security staff indeed prevented Trump from looking directly like the leader of the secondary crowd that was at the Ellipse listening to Trump's speech, when they began to march. The text isn't clear about how much the Ellipse crowd participated in the assault (if at all), in contrast to the PB and other extremist groups already engaging in such.

2:38 p.m.

Trump tweets that the rioters should “stay peaceful,” but doesn’t tell them to leave the Capitol.

Trump and Ivanka tell them to be peaceful and cease the violence, but not to leave. Despite urgent pleas from other Republicans that Trump defuse the situation by telling them to go home.

In the light of the reports I have used.. Trump can claim that he has no responsibility for leading a crowd to the Capitol (knowing them to be armed) - because his security team prevented him from doing so. I don't know how much credit the BBC gave to the security team for preventing a delusional old narcissist from causing great harm to the United States - hopefully that will be the subject of the next documentary...

No clarification on what the belated Ellipse crowd actually did. Most fact-checkers instead deal with Trump's exaggerated claim that the audience was larger than the historic MLK rally. Some also conflate the separated parts of the speech (different contexts) just like the Panorama documentary. I noticed one site actually doubling down on or excusing that after the BBC scandal. (#5) The one below is older, from 2024.

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-riot-...d8c16ccd51

EXCERPT - THE FACTS: In a speech on the White House Ellipse the morning of Jan. 6 to thousands of supporters, Trump did tell the crowd to march “peacefully and patriotically” to the Capitol. But he also used far more incendiary language when speaking off the cuff in other parts of the speech, such as telling the crowd: “We fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”

[confused2]

The presence and readiness of the Proud Boys to 'be wild' without 'peacefully and ..' is explained by Trump's tweet of December 19, 2020 ..

President Trump had no intention of conceding. As he plotted ways to stay in power, the President summoned a mob for help.
At 1:42 a.m. [ET], on December 19th, President Trump tweeted: “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!” 

More: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-...d/ch6.html

Full tweet-

December 19, 2020
06:42:42 [UTC] Peter Navarro releases 36-page report alleging election fraud 'more than sufficient' to swing victory to Trump https://t.co/D8KrMHnFdK . A great report by Peter. Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election.Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!
Retweets: 67211
Favorites: 218392

^^ my highlight
From: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/document...er-19-2020

So the 'wild' (non-peaceful, riot) protest was initiated/organised (by Trump) some weeks before the 6th January. The speech, including the start and end, is (to me) starting to look like a red herring with both Trump and the Proud Boys relying on the sheer number of people present to overwhelm any possible Capitol defences. Keeping attention on the speech draws attention away from the Proud Boys and precisely who organised their presence. In time "peacefully" is sandwiched between "wild" and "..if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.” - any apology and corrections for sloppy reporting should make this clear.

It would be unfair to include supporting act Rudy Giuliani and "trial by combat" without checking the facts first..

[C C]

And "be wild" universally means violent unrest or outright coup, like "Wild in the Streets" back in 1968. The word is never used for public events, gatherings, parties, and other everyday life contexts. So not a single corner of refuge behind those words for Trump to exploit for an exculpation.

Doha Qatar SaW Tour Concert going to be wild
https://youtu.be/kslN5v0sJo4

5 wild concerts that definitely made the nightly news
https://americansongwriter.com/5-wild-co...ghtly-news

[...] “wild” is kind of their whole deal. But while everyone knows about Ozzy Osbourne biting off a bat’s head or the chaos that was Woodstock ‘99, you might not have heard about these crazy concert shenanigans!

But the most damning proof that Trump dog whistled for a takeover of the US government is that the 2,000 to 2,500 people who invaded the Capitol truly did murder half of Congress, exploded all the pipe bombs and Molotv cocktails, and occupied the building for two months, via the remaining hostages. It was longer than the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest in Seattle, that lasted from June 8 to July 1 in 2020. Also known as CHAZ (Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone).

Which is to say, you simply do not clear out an armed, bloodthirsty, revolutionary mob like that by mid-evening. It was a genuine coup.

A curious item in that GovInfo page, hinting at what planet Jones is on...

Alex Jones also gave an incendiary speech at the Jericho March event, declaring: “I don’t know who is going to the White House in 38 days, but I sure know this, Joe Biden is a globalist, and Joe Biden will be removed, one way or another!”

And to think that just a few years later, Peter Zeihan (who has no love of Trump) declared both Trump and Biden to be the most anti-globalist presidents in history...

Deglobalization: There's no stopping it now
https://zeihan.com/deglobalization-there...ing-it-now

EXCERPT: In fact, every single trade war, every single tariff that the Trump administration put into place, the Biden administration has doubled and tripled down on, except for one. There has been a deal over aerospace with the Europeans, but that’s it. If anything, the Biden administration is far more anti-globalization than the Trump administration was, or at a minimum, it’s actually putting in the long term policy.

[Syne]

Wow, scathing sarcasm, CC.

[Yazata]

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[C C]

I'm not saying that the overall rally and march wasn't a reckless or carelessly planned event in terms of anticipating how some of the Western chauvinist groups would interpret, respond, and act. Gobs of police were injured, the stress even causing some to die from heart attacks, and there was plenty of vandalism. People should have been arrested. If a regular GOP president had been involved in such instead of Trump, at the very least their career would be totally over, if not leading to imprisonment.

That's the astonishing part about it: What kind of Houdini escapes not just that, but gets elected again? Who eludes not only the consequences of their own rash decisions, but overcomes a constant campaign against them by the establishment, and a long series of deliberate traps set up by their rivals... That normal politicians usually bumble right into and get swallowed up for good?

I'm just glad Trump never had the aspirations of Napoleon, or Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan early in life. He literally seems to be unstoppable, like there's a genie or secret pact with the Devil involved. If I was a risk-taking daredevil or adrenalin-addicted junkie eager to keep staying in his crosshairs, I sure as heck wouldn't keep emotionally sabotaging myself by believing Trump is the least socially intelligent person in the room, instead of the most cunning one.