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[Yazata]

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[Syne]

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[Magical Realist]

The mistake with that is pre-limiting the left's value system to only the peace movement. Which of course assumes the unhindered power of its own government to end war. But there are many other movements as well that aim for the restriction of the state's powers as well as the freedom of all human beings from oppression. The civil rights movement, feminism, LGBT rights, immigrant rights, environmental protection protests, anti-corporatism, antifa, free speech, Amnesty Intn'l, Green Peace, etc and etc. Ayn Rand is a pretentious hack..

[Syne]

The mistake with that is pre-limiting the left's value system to only the peace movement. Which of course assumes the unhindered power of its own government to end war. But there are many other movements as well that aim for the restriction of the state's powers as well as the freedom of all human beings from oppression. The civil rights movement, feminism, LGBT rights, immigrant rights, environmental protection protests, anti-corporatism, antifa, free speech, Amnesty Intn'l, Green Peace, etc and etc.

Yet the left pursues most of those using the force of government, to which they increasingly seek to centralize power (as long as they're in control). That's not limiting state power. Note how the left cries when Southern states got the freedom to redistrict (gerrymander), when they lose the government blessing for affirmative action or DEI, when taxpayer money cannot be funneled into their causes (and coffers), or any time they cannot use the force of government to cram their own desires down on everyone.

That is using the force of government "against the disarmed." Hell, disarming people is one of the primary goals of the left... for the purpose of making their wielding of government force more effective.

[Magical Realist]

Yet the left pursues most of those using the force of government, to which they increasingly seek to centralize power (as long as they're in control).

Societal oppression is an evil just as much as state oppression. So it is totally legit to support legislation for human rights and gun control and free speech and reproductive rights and voter rights, etc. That's what laws are for. Are you saying we should have a society without laws? And most the rationale for human rights is taken from the Constitution which limits govt power. So no, no liberals are secretly vying for a totalitarian state. It's part of being an American to fight for freedom against ANY oppression. We all read 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 in high school. Where were you? Reading Mein Kempf?

[Syne]

Societal oppression is an evil just as much as state oppression. So it is totally legit to support legislation for human rights and gun control and free speech and reproductive rights and voter rights, etc. That's what laws are for. Are you saying we should have a society without laws? And most the rationale for human rights is taken from the Constitution which limits govt power. So no, no liberals are secretly vying for a totalitarian state. It's part of being an American to fight for freedom against ANY oppression. We all read 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 in high school. Where were you? Reading Mein Kempf?

No, gun control is disarming the people you wish to use force against. Disarming people while releasing criminals earlier or without bond to victimize them, robbing job creators of what they earn and slowing job growth, literally pushing social media to censor views the left doesn't like, killing babies, and crying over securing elections that over 70% of all Americans agree with are all oppression.

The left wants to pass all their partisan laws now, which is why they want bigger government. To force their will on everyone. You know, like they want to kill the filibuster to pack SCOTUS with their appointees, so they have zero checks on their lawfare. Because they can't get enough votes to pass everything they want.
I'm not surprise you seen unaware of this, as the left is notorious for not knowing history and trying to repeat it.

[Magical Realist]

Bull crap. Conservatives are just as prone to use the govt to enforce laws as liberals are.

You protect the rights of fetuses over their mothers with a SCOTUS decision.

Trump bans mail-in voting with no evidence of it allowing fraud.

You protect the rights of rich corporations and billionaires and churches to escape paying taxes.

The FCC threatens TV comedians with censorship.

You pushed for legislation making marriage for man and woman.

You define by law genders as assigned at birth.

Trump pushes to get rid of citizenship by birth in direct violation of the Constitution.

Trump mandates the removal of all DEI content from universities on pain of losing their govt funding.

You ban books that mention anything you deem immoral.

You ban LGBT flags from being shown in schools and public bldgs.

The list goes on and on. The problem is you've forgotten how to be American. You lost your true identity conforming your beliefs to a mere party platform. So now everything myopically appears to you as a partisan attack from the left on your freedom. There is no such leftist conspiracy and never was. Human rights demand protection by the government and always will. And that's what we all stand for as Americans.

[Syne]

Bull crap. Conservatives are just as prone to use the govt to enforce laws as liberals are.

You protect the rights of fetuses over their mothers with a SCOTUS decision.

You mean the most basic human right to life?
So you demand killing babies to stop the "oppression" of inconveniencing some women with the natural consequences of their own choices and actions?
You know, treating them like children who cannot be responsible for their own choices.

Trump bans mail-in voting with no evidence of it allowing fraud.

You mean securing free and fair elections? What are you afraid of? Too many democrat voters too lazy to take even minimal effort to exercise (ironic) their rights?
How do you imagine going back to how elections were done in the 80s is "oppression"? Was it oppression back then? @_@

You protect the rights of rich corporations and billionaires and churches to escape paying taxes.

You mean incentivize creating jobs... which you've never needed due to working for the government and nepotism? @_@
And I guess you'd think taxing religions out of existence wouldn't be oppressive, even though it would clearly violate the Constitution.

The FCC threatens TV comedians with censorship.

Many conservatives were against that.

You pushed for legislation making marriage for man and woman.

You mean how it's always been? Many conservatives are for getting the government out of marriage entirely.

You define by law genders as assigned at birth.

You mean following the science?

Trump pushes to get rid of citizenship by birth in direct violation of the Constitution.

That is highly disputed, which is why it's being debated in SCOTUS right now, because it was passed to make slaves and their children citizens, not birth-tourism and anchor babies.
There are good reasons it largely doesn't exist in Europe and Asia but does in Canada, which historically needed population growth, and Central/South American countries which have historically had a net immigration losses.

Trump mandates the removal of all DEI content from universities on pain of losing their govt funding.

Yep, you cannot discriminate against anyone, including men or whites, under long-exiting anti-discrimination laws.
DEI is an obvious circumvention of SCOTUS outlawing affirmative action. It's just by a different name.

You ban books that mention anything you deem immoral.

Only for inappropriate ages, like sexual material for children.

You ban LGBT flags from being shown in schools and public bldgs.

Yes, you don't get to groom children or use public government property to push leftist bullshit.

The list goes on and on. The problem is you've forgotten how to be American. You lost your true identity conforming your beliefs to a mere party platform. So now everything myopically appears to you as a partisan attack from the left on your freedom. There is no such leftist conspiracy and never was. Human rights demand protection by the government and always will. And that's what we all stand for as Americans.

No, there has literally been years of attacks against the right. Actors blacklisted, media and college hiring bias, Obama trying to blacklist Fox, IRS targeting of conservative non-profits, trying to disarm Americans, etc..

You only care about America when it's controlled by leftists and doing your bidding. That's not American. I love my country and want it to succeed, even when Democrats are in power. I understand that human rights are negative rights, that do not impose a duty on others... like pronoun usage, acknowledging marriage or "identity," the labor of healthcare workers or the successful, etc..

[Magical Realist]

You entirely missed the point, which is typical for the one-track partisan mind. I listed those as instances of conservatives employing the power of the govt to protect what they see as rights. I have zero concern as to whether they are justified or not. Your claim that only leftists do this is thus refuted. There is no desire for a totalitarian regime when we both are fighting for freedom and human rights. "Government of the people, by the people, and for the people". It's all spelled out right there by Lincoln. And it's the founding principle of Democracy.

[Syne]

You entirely missed the point, which is typical for the one-track partisan mind. I listed those as instances of conservatives employing the power of the govt to protect what they see as rights. I have zero concern as to whether they are justified or not. Your claim that only leftists do this is thus refuted. There is no desire for a totalitarian regime when we both are fighting for freedom and human rights. Government by the people, of the people, and for the people. It's all spelled out right there.

Yes, you don't understand that there are legitimate duties of government and there are government overreaches. You think it's all the same. Typical. 9_9

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