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Article  Copper can’t be mined fast enough to electrify the US for EVs

#1
C C Offline
https://news.umich.edu/copper-cant-be-mi...fy-the-us/

PRESS RELEASE: Copper cannot be mined quickly enough to keep up with current U.S. policy guidelines to transition the country’s electricity and vehicle infrastructure to renewable energy, according to a University of Michigan study.

The Inflation Reduction Act, signed into law in 2022, calls for 100% of cars manufactured to be electric vehicles by 2035. But an electric vehicle requires three to five times as much copper as an internal combustion engine vehicle—not to mention the copper required for upgrades to the electric grid.

“A normal Honda Accord needs about 40 pounds of copper. The same battery electric Honda Accord needs almost 200 pounds of copper. Onshore wind turbines require about 10 tons of copper, and in offshore wind turbines, that amount can more than double,” said Adam Simon, U-M professor of earth and environmental studies. “We show in the paper that the amount of copper needed is essentially impossible for mining companies to produce.”

The study examined 120 years of global data from copper mining companies, and calculated how much copper the U.S. electricity infrastructure and fleet of cars would need to upgrade to renewable energy. It found that renewable energy’s copper needs would outstrip what copper mines can produce at the current rate. The study, led by Simon and Cornell University researcher Lawrence Cathles, was published by the International Energy Forum and discussed in a webinar, “Copper mining and vehicle electrification.”

The shortfall is in part because of the permitting process for mining companies. The average time between discovering a new copper mineral deposit and getting a permit to build a mine is about 20 years, according to Simon.

Copper is mined by more than 100 companies operating mines on six continents. The researchers drew data for global copper production back to the year 1900, which told them the global amount of copper mining companies had produced over 120 years. They then modeled how much copper mining companies are likely to produce for the rest of the century.

The researchers found that between 2018 and 2050, the world will need to mine 115% more copper than has been mined in all of human history up until 2018 just to meet “business as usual.” This would meet our current copper needs and support the developing world without considering the green energy transition.

To meet the copper needs of electrifying the global vehicle fleet, as many as six new large copper mines must be brought online annually over the next several decades. About 40% of the production from new mines will be required for electric vehicle-related grid upgrades.

“I’m a huge fan of the Inflation Reduction Act. I think it’s fantastic. I’ve got solar panels, batteries and an electric vehicle,” Simon said. “I’m fully on board with the energy transition. However, it needs to be done in a way that’s achievable.”

Instead of fully electrifying the U.S. fleet of vehicles, the researchers suggest focusing on manufacturing hybrid vehicles.

“We are hoping the study gets picked up by policymakers who should consider copper as the limiting factor for the energy transition, and to think about how copper is allocated,” Simon said. “We know, for example, that a Toyota Prius actually has a slightly better impact on climate than a Tesla. Instead of producing 20 million electric vehicles in the United States and globally, 100 million battery electric vehicles each year, would it be more feasible to focus on building 20 million hybrid vehicles?”

The researchers also point out that copper will be needed for developing countries to build infrastructure, such as building an electric grid for the approximately 1 billion people who don’t yet have access to electricity; to provide clean water drinking facilities for the approximately 2 billion people who don’t have access to clean water; and wastewater treatment for the 4 billion people who don’t have access to sanitation facilities.

“Renewable energy technologies, clean water, wastewater, electricity—it cannot exist without copper. So we then end up with tension between how much copper we need to build infrastructure in less developed countries versus how much copper we need for the energy transition,” Simon said.

“We think our study highlights that significant progress can be made to reduce emissions in the United States. However, the current—almost singular—emphasis on downstream manufacture of renewable energy technologies cannot be met by upstream mine production of copper and other metals without a complete mindset change about mining among environmental groups and policymakers.”

FURTHER INFORMATION: https://www.ief.org/focus/ief-reports/co...rification
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#2
confused2 Offline
Quote:—not to mention the copper required for upgrades to the electric grid.

Quote:An aluminium wire have [has] a 1.5 times larger cross section to pass the same current as a copper wire, but two times lighter. Weight is one of the most important parameters for high-voltage power lines that transmit power over long distances. Therefore, only aluminium wires are used in main overhead power lines.
More:
https://www.aluminiumleader.com/applicat...er%20lines.

Quote:Current copper resources are estimated to exceed 5,000 million tonnes (USGS, 2014 & 2017).
https://internationalcopper.org/sustaina...ces%20left.
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#3
Syne Offline
They are primarily talking about copper used in automotive wiring and wind turbines.

Aluminium windings can be used for applications where high efficiency and volume are not high priorities, for example, a motor that is only required to work intermittently for very short periods of time.
- https://www.fisherpaykeltechnologies.com...ric-motors

That's neither EVs nor wind turbines.
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#4
C C Offline
On the bright side, all those EVs junking-up the landscape due to poor resale value may be stripped by copper thieves, and scarce metals thereby recycled. Free of charge. (Scrapping Electric Vehicle Motors: Is it Worth it?)

Negatively, though, copper thieves are vandalizing charging stations.
- - - - - - - - -

https://blinkmobility.com/cutting-the-co...or-copper/

The consequences of copper theft from charging cables are far-reaching:

(1) Charging Station Downtime: Vandalized charging cables render charging stations unusable, causing inconvenience and frustration for EV owners and Blink Mobility’s car sharing members. Fewer chargers available means lower battery levels for our car sharing members and sometimes even fewer cars available if there isn’t a place to charge the EV.

(2) Financial Implications: Repairing or replacing damaged cables is costly, diverting funds from expanding charging networks or leading to higher charging fees. For the copper value of a few dollars, vandals are causing thousands in EV charger repairs.

(3) Environmental Setbacks: Copper theft hinders efforts to promote clean energy and sustainable transportation, obstructing the reduction of carbon emissions.

(4) Negative Public Image: News stories about charger vandalism create a negative image of the EV community and discourage potential adopters.


- - - - - - - - - -

Grid infrastructure
https://www.copper.org/environment/susta...structure/

Copper is an integral part of grid infrastructure because of its reliability, efficiency and performance. Copper’s properties are vital to the interconnected network of plants, devices and lines that generate and distribute electricity and power throughout the country.

[...] Underground Transmission. In underground power transmission, copper plays a very important role because of its unique mechanical and physical properties. Copper is a preferred underground cable material because of its high electrical and thermal conductivity, strength, formability, ease of joining, resistance to creep and resistance to corrosion.


- - - - - - - - - -

https://sprott.com/insights/copper-wired...he-future/

The shift from internal combustion engines (ICEs) to electric vehicles (EVs) is copper-intensive and critical to decarbonizing transportation. Copper is essential in EVs, finding use in electric motors, batteries, inverters, wiring and charging stations. An EV requires 53 kilograms of copper in electric motors, batteries, inverters, wiring and charging stations, about 2.4 times more than a conventional combustion vehicle uses. This volume of wire can extend up to a mile in length. Although efforts are underway to reduce copper in EVs, demand is still projected to hit 2.8 million metric tons by 2030.8

Additionally, the IEA reports that renewable energy infrastructure, including solar and wind power, needs 2.5 to 7 times more copper than fossil fuel-based technologies, depending on whether the wind installations are onshore or offshore. Solar and wind energy capacity has been on an upward trajectory globally and is expected to continue growing. Supporting this, the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) predicts that solar power might constitute over half of the new U.S. electricity capacity by 2024.

[...] While copper is abundant, mining it economically and efficiently is a challenge. Chile and Peru, the top copper-producing countries, are grappling with labor strikes and protests, compounded by declining ore grades. Russia, ranked seventh in copper production, faces an expected decline due to the ongoing war in Ukraine. Despite efforts by miners to ramp up production, many analysts anticipate a widening supply imbalance.

[...] Despite the prediction of a long-term supply deficit, it is projected that in 2024, global mined copper production will grow by 4.1%, reaching 23.5 million metric tons. This increase is significantly driven by contributions from Chile, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Russia.
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#5
confused2 Offline
Yah. So aluminium for overhead power lines and probably (?) copper for underground power cables.

There's at least three differences 'twixt myself (representing the UK hippy generation) and Syne (representing the average Republican/American?)

Heading in the direction of replacing oil, gas and coal with renewables..

1/ I regard windmills and solar farms as futuristic and beautiful - Syne probably not so much.

2/ Nuclear power stations. The UK experience of our latest nuke power station* is that the nuke electricity will far more expensive than renewable electricity and that is before the thing has even started generating. In fairness UK management may not excel at this sort of project. The idea of nukes providing cheap electricity may be more dream than reality.

3/ Engineering is the art of solving problems. Politics is the art of spinning problems in the desired direction,

* UK Hinkley C reactor ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Po...th_A_and_B
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#6
Syne Offline
Solar farms on a scale to make a difference take a lot of land that could be used for many other things, including wildlife. Windmills are dangerous, hazardous to wildlife, and very expensive to build and maintain. Futuristic and beautiful? Sure. Practical for the purported purpose? Not so much, especially in a wide variety of climates.
Nuclear power has been successfully used around the world. the only reason it's not more widespread is leftist fearmongering of nuclear wastes. But it is, by far, the cleanest, most reliable power source.

Even ignoring the underground power lines, EVs, themselves, require a huge amount of copper.

Not only are many automakers jacking up the prices of their gas vehicles to make up for, and subsidize, waning EV sales, the demand for copper is likely to raise the cost of cars, housing, electronics, telecommunication, etc.. And the poorest will feel the worst brunt of it. But idealistic eco-warriors don't seem to care about the human cost.
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#7
confused2 Offline
Nice spin..
Windmills are dangerous
The most common type of accident is when people come into contact with moving parts of the turbine, such as the blades.
Cows are dangerous
The most common type of accident is when people come into contact with cows.


2021 Cost of Wind EnergyReview
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy23osti/84774.pdf

Quote:The reference project LCOE for land-based installations is $34/MWh, with a range of landbased estimates from the single-variable sensitivity analysis covering $28–$70/MWh.

The above analysis.. (dividing MWh by 1,000 to get kWh) we're looking at 2.8 ¢/kWh to 7.0 ¢/kWh

Economics of Nuclear Power UPDATED FRIDAY, 29 SEPTEMBER 2023
https://world-nuclear.org/information-li...0the%20USA.

It is 'complicated' - future financing costs are unknown as are future subsidies.

Quote:The 2020 edition of Projected Costs of Generating Electricity makes the important point regarding LCOE: “At a 3% discount rate, nuclear is the lowest cost option for all countries. However, consistent with the fact that nuclear technologies are capital intensive relative to natural gas or coal, the cost of nuclear rises relatively quickly as the discount rate is raised. As a result, at a 7% discount rate the median value of nuclear is close to the median value for coal [but lower than the gas in CCGTs], and at a 10% discount rate the median value for nuclear is higher than that of either CCGT or coal. These results include a carbon cost of $30/tonne, as well as regional variations in assumed fuel costs.”

Complicated!

Quote:They mean that the value of nuclear electricity [with subsidies] can be greater than the LCOE cost of producing it in markets strongly influenced by low gas prices and subsidies on intermittent wind generation which has market priority [and subsidies]. Without the ZEC payments, nuclear operation may not be viable in this situation.

Quote:Comparing the economics of different forms of electricity generation
In 2017 the US EIA published figures for the average levelized costs per unit of output (LCOE) for generating technologies to be brought online in 2022, as modelled for its Annual Energy Outlook. These show: advanced nuclear, 9.9 ¢/kWh; natural gas, 5.7-10.9 ¢/kWh (depending on technology); and coal with 90% carbon sequestration, 12.3 ¢/kWh (rising to 14 ¢/kWh at 30%). Among the non-dispatchable technologies, LCOE estimates vary widely: wind onshore, 5.2 ¢/kWh; solar PV, 6.7 ¢/kWh; offshore wind, 14.6 ¢/kWh; and solar thermal, 18.4 ¢/kWh.

Summary  of ^^
advanced nuclear, 9.9 ¢/kWh;
wind onshore, 5.2 ¢/kWh;
solar PV, 6.7 ¢/kWh;

Is 5.2 (solar) less or more than 9.9 (nuke) ?
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#8
Syne Offline
Wind turbines are massive, and when they fail, they are very destructive. This means that a minimum safe distance between them and human occupied spaces should be maintained. So like solar power, they take up an inordinate amount of land. Land that could be used for wildlife, livestock, produce, or housing. I notice you didn't try to dispute that they are a hazard to wildlife. Both wind and solar power are very dependent on weather conditions, whereas nuclear power can be generated just about anywhere. Since power is lost over transmission distance, that makes nuclear power the clear winner in the largest variety of weather climates. Now on a small island like the UK, I'm sure transmission distance isn't a consideration. But in the US, bigger than the entire EU, it becomes a factor. That means you have more varied climates and larger transmission distances. LCOE doesn't appear to account for energy losses in the system nor efficiency in different climates.
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#9
confused2 Offline
So you can't say whether 5.2 is more or less than 9.9. I've noticed before that Republicans tend to be innumerate - one rousing after dinner speech telling you nuclear power is the cheapest and you're all ready to pass on the story,
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#10
Syne Offline
If you can't account for significant real-world factors, I'm happy to leave you in your little futuristic fantasy.
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