Research Even healthy people can be tricked into hearing voices that aren't there

[C C]

https://www.sciencealert.com/even-health...rent-there

INTRO: We might automatically associate hearing voices with neurological conditions like schizophrenia. It now turns out most brains can be tricked into hearing voices that aren't there, given the right conditions.

Researchers from the École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) in Switzerland and the University Savoie Mont Blanc in France wanted to investigate how auditory-verbal hallucinations (AVH) might be triggered in the mind: that's where we hear a voice, but there's no speaker present.

Previous studies suggest these hallucinations are caused either by an inability to correctly distinguish the self from its surroundings, or by strongly held beliefs or prior assumptions that outweigh whatever is actually happening in an environment. The team wanted to put both hypotheses to the test.

[...] if there was a lag between the button pushing and arm poking. It was as if those involved in the test were making up a voice to go with the sensation of someone standing behind them.

These outcomes, the researchers think, are enough to suggest both hallucination-trigger theories are correct: participants were failing to correctly self-monitor their surroundings, and were being influenced by strong beliefs about what was going on around them... (MORE - missing details)

PAPER: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/...AE88E07681

[stryder]

... Previous studies suggest these hallucinations are caused either by an inability to correctly distinguish the self from its surroundings, or by strongly held beliefs or prior assumptions that outweigh whatever is actually happening in an environment...

So there is complete ignorance(It's not even mentioned) in regards to artificially induced occurances through bone reverberation technics or ultrasonics (Afterall sound only has to reverberate the bone in the ear it be heard, although other variants can be a bit more physical) So again those claiming they are soft-scientists are completely missing the point about what science is.

In the real world there are groups (militaries/terrorists/state operators) that illegally operate equipment cutting corners trying to get somewhere before everyone else. Since none of them are legal, there is no oversight, there is no moral application, it just leads to the worst case scenario of abuse.

The misuse is a bit like Rape and when the quacks that call themselves professionals dress it any other way, they are literally either deny a rape occurred (by not identifying third parties) or trying to say the victim is to blame because they dressed slutty. (By suggesting that it's down to their genetics, or their psychological development or usage of drugs as some point in their life)

[Syne]

Previous studies suggest these hallucinations are caused either by an inability to correctly distinguish the self from its surroundings, or by strongly held beliefs or prior assumptions that outweigh whatever is actually happening in an environment.

Both of which are indicators of mental illness or dysfunction. Not healthy people.

[Magical Realist]

I have a susceptability to hearing voices in certain white noise emissions like running water or my fan or my refrigerator motor. I figure I'm just bad at distinguishing sounds and frequencies. Probably has something to do with my inner voices chiming in over my usual enviromental sounds. I learn to expect voices, although I know they're not really "out there".

[stryder]

If I was going to look at this "Phenomena" (as people might well call it) properly, I would consider there is more than one type of "voice" that people can hear.

1. Memory search results (quotes and quips)
   The first is something we all have (no matter a persons medical state), it's when we trigger a memory of something being said. A statement, a quote, a term that either got logged in our brains for being something interesting and important, or something so taboo we shouldn't speak of it. That leads to occurances where those memories can be triggered. A person that fires off quick quip's is sometimes using those triggered memories to apply them in real time, those with an excellent general knowledge again are tapping in on their mnemonics to do so.
   
   It's also handy for DJ's, as it can aid in lining up how a track is going to play before it's played (which leads onto the next type of "voice")
   
2. Premonition buffer (How to have a discussion go the wrong way and get away with it)
   There is then the inner voice, the monologue that allows the construction of "what does that sound like before its said". This can slow people down a bit in regards to discussions, sometimes people will silently be part of a conversation because they'll have entire sways of unheard conversation that they've decided to self-edit out. Those that are uninhibited by what they say of course probably don't bother "buffering" their thoughts and just blurt out what they "hear".
   
3. Third-party abuse (The scum of capitalism and state operators)
   There is then a different third-party kind of voice, it's not a construct of a persons psyche. As imaginative as people are, third-parties can be caught out by going above and beyond the knowledge of the person they are interfering with. Usually third-party inputs can range depending on whether they are actually attempting to be useful in a clandestine way (such as a muse) or absolutely useless and just there to theive, undermine and just get their jollies on by watching the outcome and impact of what they input. (In the cases of these third-parties, they don't state who they are, they don't do NDA's or ask permission to use people, it's clearly completely illegal and likely trying to cut corners of various technologies for a competative market).
   
   The Third-party type can also likely be Artificial Intelligence (rather than the 24-7 manned version using military regulated frequencies) which was likely placed to try to learn how to be more human (or programmed to be deformed to just torture). So again it asks some questions about the post paradigm shift in that particular area (as people obviously had to study something somewhere to get there) So those chatbots could well be ripped from people with various neurological conditions that never would of exists if such companies didn't steal from them.
   

The first two types, if a problem can be treated, as if it's something created by the person themselves then they have control over it (even if they think it's out of control) That last type is out of the control of the individual, and its not something that doctors or (sic)"professionals" can deal with. Unfortunately if a person is used in a clandestine operation, they have absolutely no control, no input and no way to block whats done (other than expensively entombing themselves within anechoic faraday cages and rarely venturing outside)

Unfortunately doctors tend to get hooked up on what they understand and blatently ignore that third party category completely and that literally means our entire world is at risk. Those third parties can (and do) start wildfires like manifesting terrorism, create sex trafficing rings/peodophile rings, snuff rings (suicide sites), espionage (both corporate and state) Their equipment and method should be treated like assault with a deadly weapon and the consequences and outcomes of their actions can have a longterm negative impact. (e.g. converting a group of religious zealots known for their violent tendencies to jihad against particular countries that are seen as their sworn enemy and using them as disposable "blackflagged" soldiers)

[Syne]

Or #3 is just a projection of an internal illness or dysfunction onto an external target of blame. This is often how mental illnesses persist, when a coping mechanism or disorder is threatened with any discovery that could lead towards it being remedied, i.e. lost. The person seeks to retain it, by postulating it's source as being something outside of their control, and thus outside of their own ability to lose. The degree of secrecy, remoteness, or inaccessibility of the target of blame is usually correlated to how much effort has gone into retaining the mental disorder.
Why would someone want to retain a mental disorder? Because they believe it protects them or is in some way necessary. It can even become a central factor in their own self-image.

[stryder]

Or #3 is just a projection of an internal illness or dysfunction onto an external target of blame. This is often how mental illnesses persist, when a coping mechanism or disorder is threatened with any discovery that could lead towards it being remedied, i.e. lost. The person seeks to retain it, by postulating it's source as being something outside of their control, and thus outside of their own ability to lose. The degree of secrecy, remoteness, or inaccessibility of the target of blame is usually correlated to how much effort has gone into retaining the mental disorder.
Why would someone want to retain a mental disorder? Because they believe it protects them or is in some way necessary. It can even become a central factor in their own self-image.

The point is there is evidence that third-party occurances are possible, ignoring that would be delusional and undermine any study. If they'd applied their study defining the scope of the naturally psychologically induced variants that would be fair, however ignoring even the smallest chance (from your perspective) of outside interference undermines the legitimacy of the study.

[Syne]

Or #3 is just a projection of an internal illness or dysfunction onto an external target of blame. This is often how mental illnesses persist, when a coping mechanism or disorder is threatened with any discovery that could lead towards it being remedied, i.e. lost. The person seeks to retain it, by postulating it's source as being something outside of their control, and thus outside of their own ability to lose. The degree of secrecy, remoteness, or inaccessibility of the target of blame is usually correlated to how much effort has gone into retaining the mental disorder.
Why would someone want to retain a mental disorder? Because they believe it protects them or is in some way necessary. It can even become a central factor in their own self-image.

The point is there is evidence that third-party occurances are possible, ignoring that would be delusional and undermine any study. If they'd applied their study defining the scope of the naturally psychologically induced variants that would be fair, however ignoring even the smallest chance (from your perspective) of outside interference undermines the legitimacy of the study.

Where is this evidence? So far, you've only claimed the same sort of "evidence" as eyewitness accounts of UFO abductions or bigfoot. Can you show me the type of equipment used and demonstrate the effect? Let me guess, that's all top secret and no civilian, scientist or otherwise, could ever get their hands on it, right? If that's the case, that's not science; it's pseudoscience. Real evidence is something anyone is capable of observing for themselves to arrive at the same objective conclusion. There can be no such study without evidence to examine. Self-reported accounts in the field of purely subjective mental phenomena is not accessible to objective examination.

[Zinjanthropos]

https://www.sciencealert.com/even-health...rent-there

INTRO: We might automatically associate hearing voices with neurological conditions like schizophrenia. It now turns out most brains can be tricked into hearing voices that aren't there, given the right conditions.

Researchers from the École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) in Switzerland and the University Savoie Mont Blanc in France wanted to investigate how auditory-verbal hallucinations (AVH) might be triggered in the mind: that's where we hear a voice, but there's no speaker present.

Previous studies suggest these hallucinations are caused either by an inability to correctly distinguish the self from its surroundings, or by strongly held beliefs or prior assumptions that outweigh whatever is actually happening in an environment. The team wanted to put both hypotheses to the test.

[...] if there was a lag between the button pushing and arm poking. It was as if those involved in the test were making up a voice to go with the sensation of someone standing behind them.

These outcomes, the researchers think, are enough to suggest both hallucination-trigger theories are correct: participants were failing to correctly self-monitor their surroundings, and were being influenced by strong beliefs about what was going on around them... (MORE - missing details)

PAPER: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/...AE88E07681

Didn’t see any mention of the Ganzfeld Effect when linked to the missing details prompt. Other link too long but never saw mention in the pages I perused. Audio sensory deprivation from something as simple as white background noise is enough to trigger the brain into hearing something not there. Brain doesn’t like periods of time when it can’t make sense of a lack of stimulation. Is the Ganzveld Effect now considered pseudo or junk science?

Also make sure your electronic devices aren’t listening and occasionally chiming in, albeit briefly. No mention of heavy drug use, past or present, that may have caused either temporary or permanent hearing disorders or is that included in the mental health aspect?

Is there a term for hearing a real noise but not being able to discern exactly where it’s coming from? Was driving the pickup and heard a scraping sound. I figured it was my brakes but when I worked them the noise persisted unabated. Now I’m thinking it’s coming from the engine, a belt or bearing maybe? I didn’t have radio on either. However I did have the heater with the air circ fan on and when I turned it off, the noise evaporated. Turns out the fan is scraping. Wondering if people who hear noises that are really present, yet they can’t find the source, believe they’re hearing things that aren’t there?

[stryder]

The point is there is evidence that third-party occurances are possible, ignoring that would be delusional and undermine any study. If they'd applied their study defining the scope of the naturally psychologically induced variants that would be fair, however ignoring even the smallest chance (from your perspective) of outside interference undermines the legitimacy of the study.

Where is this evidence? So far, you've only claimed the same sort of "evidence" as eyewitness accounts of UFO abductions or bigfoot. Can you show me the type of equipment used and demonstrate the effect? Let me guess, that's all top secret and no civilian, scientist or otherwise, could ever get their hands on it, right? If that's the case, that's not science; it's pseudoscience. Real evidence is something anyone is capable of observing for themselves to arrive at the same objective conclusion. There can be no such study without evidence to examine. Self-reported accounts in the field of purely subjective mental phenomena is not accessible to objective examination.

You've the same tools at your disposal as I have, the internet. Sure there's potentially a bunch of rubbish online, but there is also information hidden away if you look for it.

Most evidence is in relationship to BCI (Brain Computer Interfacing), there was a story some years ago of a magical "Waffle iron" looking contraption that could project sound/voices into a persons head. Even DARPA was toying around with the usage of it for non-lethal method of breaking rioters up etc (Sonic Projectors). You only have to look (if of course it's not buried too deep)

The main problem is that you go on about wanting to understand the evidence, however when it comes to evidence collection the doctors aren't scientists as their minds are already made up. It's not like they double blind and stick someone in an anechoic chamber to record their brain activity without third-party sources available and then do the same recording outside of all the shielding. If it's all in the persons head, then the patterns should be the same both inside and outside of the anechoic/faraday environment.