Jacques Vallée, UFOs, and the Case against ET Origins

[Kornee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLE0X5FRFc
Another excellent summary from Think Anomalous. But strangely the consistency of Vallee's 'interdimensional' hypothesis receives a spanner in the works.
When it's mentioned he is lately seriously into investigating alleged crashed UFO debris - including from the 1952 Washington flap incidents!!
The very first talk afaik of any alleged 'saucer crash' from that series of encounters.
This suggests either Vallee is going a bit 'funny' in his old age, or maybe has been got at - compromised somehow. I agree with one commenter:

veilofreality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLE0X5F...uul4AaABAg
Always had the utmost respect for Vallee and own most of his published works including some of his novels and the 'Forbidden Science' diaries. However, I must say that something rather fishy has been going on with Vallee and his involvement with the UFO community in the recent years. It seems that suddenly he has considerably lowered his standards and started to collaborate with highly dubious individuals like Tom Delonge and marginal new age figures like Paola Leopizzi Harris. His appearance on JRE was also very disappointing. My idea is that before he was a sincere and highly intelligent inquirer into the UFO mystery, while now he seems to be following some weird agenda that doesn't seem to come from him at all.

[C C]

[...] When it's mentioned he is lately seriously into investigating alleged crashed UFO debris...

Calls to mind that lightweight, Mulder & Scully modeled show "Debris" that was cancelled on a cliffhanger after one season. An indulgence in afflicting assorted psychological tortures upon one's self, apparently, all the more due to knowing ahead of time that the network would axe it.   

Always had the utmost respect for Vallee [...] However ... something rather fishy has been going on with Vallee  ... It seems that suddenly he has considerably lowered his standards and started to collaborate with highly dubious individuals like Tom Delonge and marginal new age figures like Paola Leopizzi Harris. His appearance on JRE was also very disappointing. ... now he seems to be following some weird agenda that doesn't seem to come from him at all.

Reorientation (of whatever stripe and category) can be later for some people than others, perhaps requiring incremental onset of dementia when it happens for octogenarians. Contrast with P. J. O'Rourke, who shifted from leftist radical to libertarian conservative before even reaching thirty.

[Kornee]

Some further thoughts from Vallee interview bearing on #1 post re 'UFO crash recovery' efforts and motivations for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHsroufqesk
36:44 - 37:30 Intro to material gathering/examination. As hoped, he has no time for Bob Lazar, which is a relief.
37:30 - 49:38 Chemical purity/isotopic ratio examination of physical deposits from UFO incidents. Cataloging that clearly seriously entertains the advanced ET hypothesis.
A shift in emphasis from earlier paranormal origins thinking, that is maybe motivated by wanting a scientifically respectable legacy?
49:40 - 54:00 Subscribes to the 'galaxy is likely teeming with advanced ET zip-through-a-wormhole whatever space faring civilizations' angle. Drake 'equation' + super advanced physics and all that.
All I have time for for now.

[Kornee]

Continuing from last post:
1:04:40 - 1:27:30 Recounts three eyewitnessed oval UFO + small humanoid occupants incidents. With distinctly physical not paranormal flavor to the details. Except for the sudden vanishing in mid-air for the French case.
The Trinity incident in particular quite bizarre, with a picture of advanced yet bungling aliens getting themselves into trouble.
With craft and maybe still alive occupants being carted off to he speculates White Sands then Los Alamos (1:28:30 - 1:29:30). So a 'traditional' crash recovery story.
Also revealed that Vallee and colleague(s) are in the process of analyzing material recovered from presumably the 1966 Zamora Socorro incident.

All in all, looks to that point like Vallee is partially returning to his initial outlook of physical alien visitations. Or maybe just a broader 'zoo' picture.
Weird. However at 1:45:05 - 1:46:20 Vallee suggests it's all part of a 'training program to get us to think differently'. Benevolent somehow.

His further relating the egg shaped Trinity crash site UFO's interior and exterior, as described by the two children who looked it over, is typical.
Utterly spartan inside, and no sign of a visible propulsion system or control panel or even seating. Like some cheap cosmic toy. Little more than an odd shell.

The interview has altered my opinion from total skeptic of crash recovery lore, to accepting it has happened.
But crashed space faring craft carrying aliens from a distant star system? That is far less certain.

Fabricated things with spartan interiors unsuited to organic beings needs - wee folks aboard in tight tuxedos. No food stores or toilet facilities etc.
Said egg/saucer/whatever things inexplicably crash as though shoddy maintenance or navigational incompetence screwed things up.
With never a rescue recovery mission by their own. Begging further questions.

Just perhaps though there really is an utterly confusing zoo of occasionally luckless physical aliens, and supernatural entities, independently doing whatever they want on our planet.

[Kornee]

After spending some time reviewing Amazon.com reviews of "Trinity - The Best Kept Secret", I've done a 180 and reverted to the earlier longstanding skeptical position regarding 'UFO crash recovery' lore. One review:
https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/1...filter-bar
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John Frum
2.0 out of 5 stars Depressing credulity
Reviewed in the United Kingdom ?? on May 31, 2021
Verified Purchase
Like many people who are very open to a non-terrestrial explanation of UFO / UAP phenomena I was looking forward to this book. From the interviews I'd seen, Vallee was enthused about releasing the results of tests on metal samples sourced from "crash sites". This, despite the fact that over the years Vallee has moved away from the "alien spam in a can" view in favor of an inter-dimensional / time travel interpretation. The surprising delay in publication, which came at extremely short notice, made me wonder if those results might, in the final assessment, have failed to conclusively demonstrate an unconventional source. QED.

How many of us in our 70s can give an accurate description - with dimensions and other minute detail - of the homes we lived in aged 6 - or even 9 years old? I can't. But apparently the interviewees, who are essentially the only source of eyewitness information about the "Trinity crash", are able - after almost 60 years! - to recount a host of intricate details about their experiences at this age. Vallee's co-author (and, distressingly, Vallee himself) swallow this tale whole - when not actually leading the witnesses, which happens much of the time.

Then there's the metal component, supposedly levered off the interior of the "craft". Even at a glance it's obviously from a piece of agricultural machinery. The authors attempt various logical somersaults to negotiate this laughable fraud. Apart from this example, the images in the Kindle (only?) version of the wildly over-priced book are minute and utterly useless.

I had intended to make notes on the innumerable instances of confirmation bias and contradictions which are distributed through the early part of the book but that's a wearisome prospect. There is no evidence of the text being scrutinised by an editor or even a proof reader. At one point a mysterious SUV is described as having "tainted windows": well, at least that raised a smile. This section is essentially a repeat of interviews conducted and published previously by Paola Harris (the second person to do so) and it's shockingly badly written.

The following part of the book, clearly written by Vallee himself, contains for those who weren't already informed about it, a summary of the Manhattan Project. For some reason Vallee labors the point that he thinks that the Trinity test wasn't a "test" at all. His reason for this is essentially pointless although his observations about the reckless lack of safety is well made. I have to confess that by this stage I'd already lost interest in reading further. At some point I might finish the book but I can't think of a good enough reason right now.

The credulity that this book exemplifies, particularly in Paola Harris' case, is distressingly familiar and one of the biggest obstacles for objective UAP observers to overcome in terms of public perception. Who knows what really happened in 1945? Although the "avocado shape" of the device in question certainly offers a possible clue... Save yourself the trouble and expense of buying this book and watch the three way interview about it on YT. In conversation the filters are disabled and the credulity is given free rein.

The eye-witness testimony of Cmdr. David Fravor and the other pilots whose accounts have been published in recent years are of incalculable value in comparison with this credulous mess. It's sad that Jacques Vallee has been reduced to putting his name to it.
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Sad indeed. On reflection, the whole idea that a genuinely crashed UFO as claimed would not be under constant 24/7 military guard, thus allowing no possibility of one or both 'eyewitness' children to crawl inside, confront wee panicky aliens, and later casually tear off a bracket somehow firmly attached to super tough alien metal wall, is ludicrous. And why would the fuel-free 'avocado' craft be glowing hot enough to set fire to adjacent scrub?!

I had trusted Vallee on this one, based on past penetrating analyses. The lesson is there can be no gurus in this business. Each case carefully judged on it's own merits. Sigh.