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Spotify was never going to drop Joe Rogan (audio style)

#1
C C Offline
https://www.wired.com/story/spotify-joe-...eil-young/

EXCERPTS: . . . On Monday, the legendary rocker [Neil Young] published a letter decrying the Swedish streamer for spreading false information about Covid-19 vaccines. In it, he cited the Spotify-exclusive podcast The Joe Rogan Experience in particular: “They can have Rogan or Young. Not both.”

Spotify quickly made its choice -- Rogan. Of course it did. Young vs. Spotify has been framed as a culture-war victory for Joe Rogan, but it’s not. There was no battle.

[...] there is no evidence that this rancor has impacted Rogan’s position as Spotify’s golden boy. His podcast remains number one on its charts in the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. (Young, in contrast, is the 778th most popular musical artist.)

Spotify didn’t give Rogan a reported $100 million in a noble effort to spearhead a public health campaign. It gave him the money to be his freewheeling, contrarian, and almost constantly controversial self. He’s a shock jock.

Spotify knew what it was buying in May 2020. Back then, when it ported over Rogan’s catalog, it left out more than 40 older episodes, including interviews with Sandy Hook conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and Proud Boys founder Gavin McInnes—and it faced a wave of backlash from angry fans for doing so.

This time around, it seems less inclined to rankle Rogan’s acolytes than it is to accept that a fraction of Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young superfans who care about public health will be deleting their accounts.

No disrespect to Neil Young, but he was never going to move the needle here. Ever. Even if he got other artists on board to boycott Spotify, it’s unlikely any coalition would have the desired effect. First of all, there are practical roadblocks, as musicians are rarely the owners of their own music... (MORE - missing details)
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#2
Syne Offline
Neil Young simply doesn't have the audience to succeed at such an ultimatum...making it a completely empty gesture. This must be how has-been musicians virtue-signal nowadays.
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#3
confused2 Offline
^^^
The term [virtue-signalling] implies that they don’t truly believe in the cause they publicly support. They are acting out of bad faith, because they have an ulterior motive.
Do we agree on the definition of virtue-signalling?
You (Syne) have evidence that Neil Young doesn't believe in the cause he is publicly supporting?
--------------------------------
I see Joni Mitchell has done it too.
After seeing a picture of Rogan I'd be surprised if there was much overlap between his demographic and Mitchell/Young fans.
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#4
Syne Offline
(Jan 29, 2022 03:29 PM)confused2 Wrote: ^^^
The term [virtue-signalling] implies that they don’t truly believe in the cause they publicly support. They are acting out of bad faith, because they have an ulterior motive.
Do we agree on the definition of virtue-signalling?
You (Syne) have evidence that Neil Young doesn't believe in the cause he is publicly supporting?

Why would you think virtue-signalling isn't a truly held belief? Yes, some people, like corporations, can exploit virtue-signalling, but I'd expect most individuals to actually hold the belief as well. Virtue-signalling is just a kind of boasting about one's values, whether believed or not. A sort of public display of tribal piety.

Corporations can only exploit virtue-signalling because individuals who hold those values want to display them to others...by patronizing such businesses. If the people who hold those beliefs weren't so interested in gaining social value by displaying them, businesses wouldn't be taking political sides.

Two difference things, the individual desire to look pious and the corporate profit incentive to enable that desire.
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#5
confused2 Offline
Syne Wrote:Why would you think virtue-signalling isn't a truly held belief?
Only because the dictionary definition of virtue-signalling is that it is not a truly held belief (bad faith).
Regardless of dictionary definition I agree that 'virtue-signalling' is strongly associated with boasting about values and your analysis is fair.
As it happens both Joni Mitchell and Neil Young had polio in their youth. My cohort (born 1954) is the first (UK) cohort without polio though quite a few have/had older brothers or sisters with limps, crutches or leg irons as a result of polio.
I agree that (today) whatever a thing appears to be is what it actually is. If a publicity machine doesn't pick up a sound bite then .. nothing.
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#6
Syne Offline
(Jan 30, 2022 02:45 AM)confused2 Wrote:
Syne Wrote:Why would you think virtue-signalling isn't a truly held belief?
Only because the dictionary definition of virtue-signalling is that it is not a truly held belief (bad faith). 
Regardless of dictionary definition I agree that 'virtue-signalling' is strongly associated with boasting about values and your analysis is fair.
As it happens both Joni Mitchell and Neil Young had polio in their youth. My cohort (born 1954) is the first (UK) cohort without polio though quite a few have/had older brothers or sisters with limps, crutches or leg irons as a result of polio.
I agree that (today) whatever a thing appears to be is what it actually is. If a publicity machine doesn't pick up a sound bite then .. nothing.

Why are you supposedly citing a "dictionary definition" but not providing it here?

Maybe because the actual definition is:

virtue signalling - the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.

Virtue signalling is a pejorative term for the expression of a moral viewpoint with the intent of communicating good character.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

Virtue signalling is the popular modern habit of indicating that one has virtue merely by expressing disgust or favour for certain political ideas or cultural happenings.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dict...signalling

So one has to wonder where you're getting your supposed definition.

If any ulterior motive, it's these has-beens hoping to get their names back into modern public awareness, like any other grandstanding.
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#7
Yazata Online
Neil Young was huge in the early 1970's. He actually had a rebellious image back then, part of the so-called "counter-culture". But that was 50 years ago. He certainly seems to have gone establishment over those 50 years.

Today it's Joe Rogan who occupies Neil Young's old cultural-rebel seat. One of the take-aways from that is how the old anti-establishment left of the 60's and 70's has somehow transformed itself into today's establishment. (Which explains some of the obvious contradictions of the Democratic party I guess.) Maybe that's how it always happens...

The cynic in me wonders if this little tantrum was Young's way of trying to once again be culturally relevant. He still records music, which may or may not be good, but the fact remains that the vast majority of 20-year-olds probably have no idea who he is (or was).
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#8
Secular Sanity Offline
(Jan 30, 2022 03:43 AM)Yazata Wrote: Neil Young was huge in the early 1970's. He actually had a rebellious image back then, part of the so-called "counter-culture". But that was 50 years ago. He certainly seems to have gone establishment over those 50 years.

Today it's Joe Rogan who occupies Neil Young's old cultural-rebel seat. One of the take-aways from that is how the old anti-establishment left of the 60's and 70's has somehow transformed itself into today's establishment. (Which explains some of the obvious contradictions of the Democratic party I guess.) Maybe that's how it always happens...

The cynic in me wonders if this little tantrum was Young's way of trying to once again be culturally relevant. He still records music, which may or may not be good, but the fact remains that the vast majority of 20-year-olds probably have no idea who he is (or was).

That’s so funny, (odd). I was just telling my son’s friend about the rich liberal effect in California. The coastline is filled with rich old hippies with the inlands more conservative, but the wine country is loaded with virtue signaling, walking contradictions. Their money buffers them from any bad policies that they vote in. I even thought that the legalization of marijuana would be good for the community, but it’s been a disaster. The cost and complexity of the permits and regulations keep the small farmers out and subjected to abatement, heavy fines, etc. The local authorities are scooping up millions in fines and people are losing their properties that were in their families for centuries. Local agencies are buying up water rights and properties left and right. The rich walk through the process with ease, and the ones that are willing to take the risks and remain underground are the more dangerous types with murders, thefts, etc. still on the rise.
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#9
confused2 Offline
I agree with Yazata and SS about most of it. But.
Vaccination is more than a political game.
If you want polio back then don't get your children vaccinated.
There is no cure for polio, it can only be prevented.
I don't know how stupid the loony right are - I suspect 'very'.
I saw Trump was 'boosted' before he turned up to a Repfest - so Trump isn't stupid .. my worry is just how stupid (some of) his followers are and how much antivaxxing is going to turn into a (lack of) virtue signalling exercise.

From the Urban Dictionary:
Virtue Signaling
A term used by those with questionable moral standing against those taking a moral stand in an attempt to silence moral arguments.
Kevin48423 April 10, 2019
[ https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p...0Signaling ]
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#10
Syne Offline
(Jan 30, 2022 10:01 PM)confused2 Wrote: I agree with Yazata and SS about most of it. But.
Vaccination is more than a political game.
If you want polio back then don't get your children vaccinated.
There is no cure for polio, it can only be prevented.
I don't know how stupid the loony right are - I suspect 'very'.
I saw Trump was 'boosted' before he turned up to a Repfest - so Trump isn't stupid .. my worry is just how stupid (some of) his followers are and how much antivaxxing is going to turn into a (lack of) virtue signalling exercise.

From the Urban Dictionary:
Virtue Signaling
A term used by those with questionable moral standing against those taking a moral stand in an attempt to silence moral arguments.
Kevin48423 April 10, 2019
[ https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p...0Signaling ]

Wow, so your go-to definition is Urban Dictionary, huh? Any clue how self-deluded that makes you look?

No one is talking about foregoing Polio vaccines, and that's a false comparison, because like you say, there is no cure for Polio, while there are treatments for COV. Morons like you have decided that anyone who doesn't want the COV vaccine must be completely anti-vax, which is far from the reality. Many people trust decades old vaccines and simply don't fear COV enough to take a new vaccine with completely new technology (mRNA). That makes you a moron conspiracy theorist.

Look, if you're so afraid, get vaxxed, stay home, protect yourself. But if you want to be a fascist with the freedoms of others, fuck off, piece of shit. Although, to be fair, it's not like Brits really have enough freedom to realize what they're losing. Sad.
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