God and evidence

[Magical Realist]

I think that’s what faith is, being open to the possibility at first and then it leads into a journey. Don’t let anyone sway you from this, because if believing in God/higher power brings you peace, then let that lead you.

In my experience with faith, I see God as not a magical being who takes away all my difficulties and stress. But, believing in God gives me a lasting sense of peace that changes my outlook. If God created space, humanity, etc then surely my problems are small by comparison. lol But, many people have had horrible experiences with religion maybe in childhood or whenever, so the door shuts to the idea that God may exist at all.

Good luck exploring this path, MR.

To paraphrase Carlos Castaneda, it's a path with heart and so merits some personal exploration. I was once an avid christian in my teen years but left that belief system as I studied philosophy and science in my twenties. My chronic reconsideration of the theistic part of that faith is a journey that I've been on all my life. From literalist fundamentalism to hardcore atheism to resigned agnosticism and now to a sort of peaceful pantheism. It's a soul odyssey that develops its own logic and harmony over the years...a labyrinthine pathway with many digressions and loops.

[Zinjanthropos]

I think that what it is for believers is the feeling there is some great, yet unknown mystery to the universe that if solved, will explain a lot. Hey, I feel it too but I’m not inclined to believe a god is the solution. As long as it remains unsolved there’s room for the imagination and that isn’t a bad thing. I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again....paraphrased: go ahead and believe in a god(s) but stop there because all you’ll do is add to it and create more beliefs.

For instance: It would be so easy for the 3 Abrahamic religions to just agree there’s one god, something they already do, yet can’t agree on a name for it. Is it worth all the trouble more beliefs cause?

[Leigha]

I think that’s what faith is, being open to the possibility at first and then it leads into a journey. Don’t let anyone sway you from this, because if believing in God/higher power brings you peace, then let that lead you.

In my experience with faith, I see God as not a magical being who takes away all my difficulties and stress. But, believing in God gives me a lasting sense of peace that changes my outlook. If God created space, humanity, etc then surely my problems are small by comparison. lol But, many people have had horrible experiences with religion maybe in childhood or whenever, so the door shuts to the idea that God may exist at all.

Good luck exploring this path, MR.

To paraphrase Carlos Castaneda, it's a path with heart and so merits some personal exploration. I was once an avid christian in my teen years but left that belief system as I studied philosophy and science in my twenties. My chronic reconsideration of the theistic part of that faith is a journey that I've been on all my life. From literalist fundamentalism to hardcore atheism to resigned agnosticism and now to a sort of peaceful pantheism. It's a soul odyssey that develops its own logic and harmony over the years...a labyrinthine pathway with many digressions and loops.

I'm not familiar with his writings/teachings, but his work sounds interesting. So, he was considered a ''shaman?''

[Magical Realist]

I'm not familiar with his writings/teachings, but his work sounds interesting. So, he was considered a ''shaman?''

He is most famous for his fictional works about his spiritual journey under the tutelage of a Yaqui shaman named Don Juan. The distinction between fiction and reality gets blurry at times as the lessons he learns apply equally to our own lives. In this sense maybe he WAS a shaman.

[Image: s-l400.jpg]

"This question is one that only a very old man asks. Does this path have a heart? All paths are the same: they lead nowhere. They are paths going through the bush, or into the bush. In my own life I could say I have traversed long long paths, but I am not anywhere. Does this path have a heart? If it does, the path is good; if it doesn't, it is of no use. Both paths lead nowhere; but one has a heart, the other doesn't. One makes for a joyful journey; as long as you follow it, you are one with it. The other will make you curse your life. One makes you strong; the other weakens you.


Before you embark on any path ask the question: Does this path have a heart? If the answer is no, you will know it, and then you must choose another path. The trouble is nobody asks the question; and when a man finally realizes that he has taken a path without a heart, the path is ready to kill him. At that point very few men can stop to deliberate, and leave the path. A path without a heart is never enjoyable. You have to work hard even to take it. On the other hand, a path with heart is easy; it does not make you work at liking it.”---CC

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I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again....paraphrased: go ahead and believe in a god(s) but stop there because all you’ll do is add to it and create more beliefs

Kierkegaard said something along the same line-- "Purity of heart is to will one thing.". So many start out that way but get easily distracted by other beliefs that sort of ossify and harden into an outer shell called religion. That's where spirituality differs from religion. Spirituality is an openness and emptiness to the experience of the transcendental, whereas religion is basically a socializing persona or mask that one wears to fit into an ingroup. Religion is manmade and restrictive and moralistic. Spirituality otoh is organic and liberating and experiential.

[Syne]

I think that what it is for believers is the feeling there is some great, yet unknown mystery to the universe that if solved, will explain a lot. Hey, I feel it too but I’m not inclined to believe a god is the solution. As long as it remains unsolved there’s room for the imagination and that isn’t a bad thing. I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again....paraphrased: go ahead and believe in a god(s) but stop there because all you’ll do is add to it and create more beliefs.

For instance: It would be so easy for the 3 Abrahamic religions to just agree there’s one god, something they already do, yet can’t agree on a name for it. Is it worth all the trouble more beliefs cause?

It's not a matter of "will explain," it "does explain" for the believer.

Of the three Abrahamic religions, only one is a real problem and literally warring against the others. You can't honestly blame that on the other two.

[Leigha]

If someone is a non-believer though, then the Abrahamic religions tend to look the same, on the surface. For a non-believer, they'd be equally meaningless, as well. Believers who follow say Christianity, may view the Bible as proof enough for them, but it won't be convincing to anyone outside of that religion.

[Syne]

If someone views Christianity and Judaism as equal to Islamism, they are ignorant of all the evil Islam is still doing today. Even if deemed equally meaningless, that does not excuse being too lazy to discern objectively evil acts. But then, non-believers are often moral relativists, who can manage to excuse many objectively evil things. Maybe that's a feature, to help dismiss them all.

[Leigha]

Yea, I'd say most non-believers wouldn't find that religion (monotheism) in general, holds any value (for them), because they don't believe in God. Many non-believers view the notion of God as man-made, therefore any religious texts would also be man-made, as works of fiction perhaps. Atheists tend to take the default position of non-belief.

I like what you stated above - ''it does explain,'' but that's because I believe. If I were ever to come to the conclusion that God doesn't exist, the Bible wouldn't hold any value for me. Not sure if I'm making sense...

[Syne]

I view religious texts as man-made. If we're going to dismiss things solely because they're man-made, we'd have to give up a lot of knowledge and wisdom.

[Zinjanthropos]

I get a kick out of people who think atheists are evil when non believers have at least one less reason to commit it, ie...in the name of a god. If I want to hear about the evil atheists then I might as well go to church. I won’t be picking up a gun soon to defend it. How many times do I need to say it, believe in a god all you want....how that bothers someone is beyond me. It doesn’t perturb me if someone believes, honestly it doesn’t.

Have I seen the evil of theism up close? Does being threatened with death by an extremist Christian religious cult count? Do Lost friendships because I don’t believe or didn’t convert also mean anything? It’s shocking to say the least but that’s not the reason I’m atheistic, in fact I really don’t know exactly why, just am. I don’t analyze it. I figure I’m incapable of belief until god is proven I guess. I’ve been one for practically my whole life and it makes perfect sense to me, as a theist would think of their chosen god. God belief is so low on my list of life’s priorities that I don’t even consider it important.

I don’t discount the possibility, no matter how slim, of a god existing. At least something akin to one. For example if the universe is a simulation then the entity who controls the on/off switch might be considered. Fact that there is no empirical evidence doesn’t surprise me. Is this a case where lack of evidence is purely circumstantial to an atheist? If you feel inclined to take a shot a me for non belief then be my guest. Do you want me to recant my stance or fake being a believer? Why?