Carney sacrificing Canada's sovereignty to the EU? (DIY emotion over reason)

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LILLEY UNLEASHED (Toronto Sun)
https://youtu.be/C3nwlipVGIQ

VIDEO EXCERPTS: Canada should be expanding trade with the European Union, but by no means should we become a member, an associate member, or anything close to it.

[...] First is the issue of sovereignty. We would have to give up an awful lot of sovereignty to get the kind of access that Mark Carney's talking about. This isn't speculation. This is based on agreements that already exist.

Secondly, right now, we simply don't trade enough. We don't make the kinds of products that the Europeans want to buy. Our major exports are all built for the US. It would take us a long time to pivot in this direction.

And thirdly, the EU economy is not doing well and hasn't been for quite some time. In part due to kinds of regulations we would be subject to if we got what we're looking for.

[...] As I said, there is no associate member status within the European Union, but there are countries that are not full members but have deep trading access, which is what Carney's looking for, beyond a free trade agreement. [...] Well, let me just look at the Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein agreement for a moment.

[...] Are we going to accept that kind of language? Because that's what Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein had to do. The EU wants to control the regulations around products, around the environment, around consumer protection, around privacy. And some of those changes, if we were to accept European regulations, might be good. But some of them would be bad.

Either way, it's not our decision. It'll be made in Brussels. It'll be made in Strasbourg. From one of the agreements on the EU website, the same rules and conditions apply to all businesses within the EEA. That's the grouping of the EU and these other countries. EU legislation relating to the internal market is part of an EEA's countries' legislation.

The EU is the final arbiter of legislation, the final arbiter of regulation. They make the decisions. That's part of why Britain left the EU. Brexit was driven in part by crazy EU regulations. They wanted to get rid of fast-boiling kettles, and the British love their tea. They wanted to make all kinds of regulations that the British people said, "No, we're not in favor of that. We're in favor of free trade, but we don't want you regulating every part of our lives."

What level of integration is Mark Carney willing to give up? We don't know. He hasn't informed the Canadian public. He definitely hasn't informed Parliament, which hasn't sat in getting close to 100 days now, and won't sit until next week after he's already made his announced deals in Strasbourg at the European Parliament. He's speaking to the European Parliament about this before speaking to our own. On no planet does that make sense.

I know what the polling says. Mark Carney is at almost 50% according to the latest poll. That's driven in part because he's fighting Donald Trump. I know other polling is out. It shows 49% of Canadians want Canada to become a full EU member. Yeah. Let's ensure our sovereignty by giving it all up to Brussels. Makes no sense, but Canadian media is always telling you how bad the United States is and how great the EU is. So, no wonder that's kind of the thinking that we have.

80% of Canadians believe we should draw closer to Europe. Yes, but not this close. What? I don't want to get married to Europe. We are not Europe. But it's only going to help Carney's polling, and he's going to be going up as a result of this. But is it the right direction? I'm going to be the one on the outside saying, "No." I know it's not a popular view, but this is not the direction that Canada should be taking. It's going to be the popular one, but it's not the well-informed one.

Carney’s Euro dreams headed in the wrong direction ... https://youtu.be/C3nwlipVGIQ
https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/C3nwlipVGIQ

AFAIK we’ve been made an associate member. Whoopee! Don’t see the significance but I guess some do.

But because I live directly within eyesight of the USA then all I can do is observe. Not seeing a lot of American tags on our highways as I used to. Peace Bridge traffic not heavy at all and despite all the tariff stuff there are still American trucks at inspection stations. Duty free store has closed, not enough traffic. Buffalo Bills still very popular here and when playing at home there are Canadians with tickets going over bridge(s). Heard where there was some good natured interaction between the American and Canadian tour boats below Niagara Falls that involved throwing a football back and forth. No one I know hates the Americans. Disliking Trump is another thing.

Most people like Carney except the flag waving, horn honking F150 drivers (no gun racks allowed in rear window) who disagree with current govt. Normal. We drive less, we eat less and I think high prices probably affects our health positively by being so. Still have nutjobs that make it to the States to stir up shit and Govt Oppostion parties that disagree with Carney, again normal. All in all I think we’re not really missing the USA. Trump is not going to change his MO so we adjust and it seems to be working out positively.

(Sep 17, 2026 05:24 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: AFAIK we’ve been made an associate member. Whoopee! Don’t see the significance but I guess some do.

But because I live directly within eyesight of the USA then all I can do is observe. Not seeing a lot of American tags on our highways as I used to. Peace Bridge traffic not heavy at all and despite all the tariff stuff there are still American trucks at inspection stations. Duty free store has closed, not enough traffic. Buffalo Bills still very popular here and when playing at home there are Canadians with tickets going over bridge(s). Heard where there was some good natured interaction between the American and Canadian tour boats below Niagara Falls that involved throwing a football back and forth. No one I know hates the Americans. Disliking Trump is another thing.

Most people like Carney except the flag waving, horn honking F150 drivers (no gun racks allowed in rear window) who disagree with current govt. Normal. We drive less, we eat less and I think high prices probably affects our health positively by being so. Still have nutjobs that make it to the States to stir up shit and Govt Oppostion parties that disagree with Carney, again normal. All in all I think we’re not really missing the USA. Trump is not going to change his MO so we adjust and it seems to be working out positively.

If America is tariffing  countries to attempt to expand its area of influence (or for any reason) then it is only to be expected  that other countries will "trade around" them.

Rather hard for its geographical neighbours  but let us see what is possible.

Most Americans  disapprove of the incumbent conman and adjudicated rapist .Hopefully they will disengage themselves from the incontinent  tar baby and emerge the  wiser  when he is beaten at the ballot.

I also hope they (and we) can  remove the stench  of monied corruption  from politics.

Quote: If America is tariffing countries to attempt to expand its area of influence (or for any reason) then it is only to be expected that other countries will "trade around" them.

A reasonable expectation. Canadian Trade Commission isn’t sitting on their hands. Next month I’m expecting a huge deal with India, a country we’ve had many meetings with since Carney. For us it will be big. These guys have been busy and for once it sounds like govt is taking care of business. We’ll see.

https://www.tradecommissioner.gc.ca/en/t...india.html

From what I understand India and US relations strained at moment. Maybe they should patch things up and resume normal trade…idk.

The problem is that Canadian exports have been tailored to the US consumer market. Pivoting to other markets will take time... and cost more shipping. Can the Canadian economy take that added strain right now? I don't know.

(Sep 17, 2026 08:28 PM)Syne Wrote: The problem is that Canadian exports have been tailored to the US consumer market. Pivoting to other markets will take time... and cost more shipping. Can the Canadian economy take that added strain right now? I don't know.

From what I understand Canada is doing all it can to reduce reliance on USA. TransMountain pipeline (TMX) ships about 75% of its oil to Asia from Vancouver (No belligerent Arabs firing missiles at anyone). Our oil is actually cheap even once processed. We just need to get it there and that’s going to happen. It’s as if Canadians are saying past is past, nice dealing with you but we’re moving on. To answer your question, ya I think we can take it. Can’t be worse than importing American and paying high tariffs.

I don’t really care what American govt thinks of why we’re doing whatever it is they object to and that seems to be the prevailing attitude of all Canadians. Some say we’re sticking it in the US rear but we need to survive without relying on America. Times are changing and looking good.

Except, Canada relies on oil pipelines that run through the US. So again, it would take time to adapt, if that were to suddenly change.

(Sep 17, 2026 09:11 PM)Syne Wrote: Except, Canada relies on oil pipelines that run through the US. So again, it would take time to adapt, if that were to suddenly change.

Didn’t help when Biden kiboshed Keystone but pipelines are in our blood. Back in the 70’s we built 500+ mile pipeline from Sarnia to Montreal in 14 months. Sounds like we have a couple pipelines on the drawing board strictly in Canada. Takes longer to win over general public and the indigenous then to build the pipeline for sure. Americans having no say in what we do might help expedite things also.

My brother is has PhD in Geology and consensus is there enough oil in the ground here in Canada to last the next 1000 years at present consumption rates, so we’ll be busy.

Again, new pipelines take time to build, with a far more litigious and regulated environment than the 70s... even if you still have those kind of skills and manpower available.

No one doubts how much oil Canada has. But even moving it from province to province requires US pipelines right now.

What could EU associate member status mean for Canada?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8vgy3pq5ywyo

EXCERPTS: EU associate membership does not currently exist and the process to create it could take years. If associate status were enshrined in EU treaties, it would require unanimity and ratification among all 27 member states.

If associate status were enshrined in EU treaties, it would require unanimity and ratification among all 27 member states. Despite von der Leyen's overtures towards Canada, some EU countries would prefer to build on existing defence and trade agreements rather than create a new form of membership.

The EU is Canada's second-largest trading partner and the far-reaching Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement was agreed more than a decade ago, though several of the bloc's 27 members are yet to ratify that agreement.

The current trade deal does not remove border checks. Would associate membership change that? It also remains to be seen what associate membership would mean for Canada's relationship with the European single market.

Were Canada to one day join the single market, it would have to match EU regulations and standards while having no say on policy – in a similar way to European Economic Area countries Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, or Switzerland, which has a separate deal.

So EU associate membership is currently only an idea and may take years to formulate and "physically" implement. Similar to those EEA countries, it would involve surrendering policy decisions to Brussels (a more direct Brussels effect). Better to just stick with the current situation of CETA, as those "some" EU members themselves prefer for Canada.

(Sep 18, 2026 02:18 AM)Syne Wrote: Again, new pipelines take time to build, with a fair more litigious and regulated environment than the 70s... even if you still have those kind of skills and manpower available.

No one doubts how much oil Canada has. But even moving it from province to province requires US pipelines right now.

But Carney is a powerful wizard. His magical powers will thwart the obstacles of the past that have impeded capitalizing on Canada's many raw resources. This will take mere months, not years or decades of detailed environmental evaluation and litigation and intricate negotiations.

Yes, Canada can build pipelines between provinces, but such projects often require extensive regulatory approvals and consultations with Indigenous communities and stakeholders. The process can be complex and may face legal and political challenges.

Current regulatory requirements for building pipelines in Canada include compliance with the Impact Assessment Act, which mandates environmental assessments, and obtaining necessary permits from federal and provincial authorities. Additionally, companies must engage with Indigenous communities and adhere to safety and operational standards set by regulatory bodies.

Indigenous consultations are crucial in pipeline construction in Canada, as they ensure that the rights and concerns of Indigenous Peoples are considered and addressed. Regulatory bodies like the Canada Energy Regulator require companies to engage with Indigenous communities to assess potential impacts on their rights and the environment before proceeding with projects.

Recent legal challenges to pipeline projects in Canada include First Nations opposition to the Kino Aski project and concerns raised over the controversial Churchill Falls project, as highlighted at the Canada Investment Summit in Toronto.

First Nations lead Kino Aski LNG – A major Canadian energy project: "Kino Aski Inc. and Marinvest Energy Canada Inc. emphasize that the project remains in the development phase. Discussions with governments, communities, and industry partners are ongoing. No formal regulatory process has yet begun. Additional details will be released as technical studies, environmental assessments, and consultations with rightsholders and stakeholders advance."