How meaning can exist in the world

(Dec 7, 2016 10:39 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

(Dec 7, 2016 10:26 PM)Syne Wrote: Then the forum search function is broken, because it only finds your post and those that quoted your post. So unless you can show otherwise, I have no choice but to assume you're lying. And you can hardly call me a liar for assuming something you refuse to support. So you're not only a liar, you're intellectually dishonest and using unsupported ad hominems as well.

So go ahead, prove I'm lying about you making that quote up. I dare you. And if you can't, you own me yet another apology.

You prove I'm lying liar, It's your claim.

(hint..it's in the Empty Room forum)

Thank you. Now that you've shown otherwise, I have no reason to assume you lied. Why couldn't you just do that in the first place?

I asked where you got the quote, and asked if you made it up. Since you suddenly got defensive for no reason, what else was I to think? If the forum search doesn't find it, how am I suppose to divine where it came from...unless you tell me?

(Dec 7, 2016 07:06 PM)Carol Wrote: Secular Sanity, I read the post you linked to.  Do you think you were being respectful and considerate?  What do you think your merits were in that post?

You know a great deal about the science of human behavior.  You tell me.

(Dec 7, 2016 08:56 PM)Syne Wrote: Where did you get that quote? Show me. Or did you just make it up?

Is that a loaded or leading question?

(Dec 8, 2016 01:51 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote:

(Dec 7, 2016 08:56 PM)Syne Wrote: Where did you get that quote? Show me. Or did you just make it up?

Is that a loaded or leading question?

Not if the answer is "here".

(Dec 7, 2016 10:39 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

(Dec 7, 2016 10:26 PM)Syne Wrote:

(Dec 7, 2016 10:19 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

(Dec 7, 2016 10:17 PM)Syne Wrote:

(Dec 7, 2016 10:16 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

Quote:Where did you get that quote? Show me. Or did you just make it up?

Do you seriously think I am inclined to show you anything after a smartass crack like that?

IOW, you just made it up.

No I didn't liar..

r,
Then the forum search function is broken, because it only finds your post and those that quoted your post. So unless you can show otherwise, I have no choice but to assume you're lying. And you can hardly call me a liar for assuming something you refuse to support. So you're not only a liar, you're intellectually dishonest and using unsupported ad hominems as well.

So go ahead, prove I'm lying about you making that quote up. I dare you. And if you can't, you own me yet another apology.

You prove I'm lying liar, It's your claim.

(hint..it's in the Empty Room forum)

What is happening here?   Is this my fault?  I am horrified by what has happened to this thread.  I made a small comment about culture, and all hell has broken loose.  Any of you remember the rioting when police were video taped beating Rodney King, and Rodney King was made the center of news, pleading with everyone, "Can't we just have peace".   

Some of us are very afraid as Trump appears to have unleashed the worst human behaviors and his appointees are military men.  How much closer do we have to get to a Military Industrial Complex, before people stop saying the Military Industrial Complex is just conspiracy talk?    Some may think Trump shouldn't be forced to separate his family from his global investments, but then how do we prevent the corruption that troubles so many countries around the world, where rulers can use national wealth and power to enhance their private wealth and power?   What kind of role model is Trump showing the world?  

Trump talk has unleashed brutal behaviors like threatening a journalist and her family, attempting to set a Muslim on fire, and other words and acts of brutality.  This is what happened when Hitler took power.  To counteract this, some of us are wearing safety pins to communicate we are safe people to talk to and not ignorant, prejudiced bigots who do not understand the national values of the democracy we defended in two world wars.

You all may think calling each other liars and other personal attacks, are harmless, but this is not harmless.  It is what happens before the horrors of Hitler's New World Order started a world war and the persecution of thousands of Jews.  I am not sure what you think needs to be said in a thread about How meaning can exist in the world, but you matter so act like it.  Choose your words and behaviors carefully.

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(Dec 8, 2016 01:51 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote:

(Dec 7, 2016 07:06 PM)Carol Wrote: Secular Sanity, I read the post you linked to.  Do you think you were being respectful and considerate?  What do you think your merits were in that post?

You know a great deal about the science of human behavior.  You tell me.
 

You can do better than that.
"Put on your big girl pants." That is as insulting as some of the things Trump has said.  
" There is nothing wrong with persuasion.  There’s a big difference between persuasion and coercion.  Each person is going to enter into your topic with their own ideas and feelings.  You should consider those ideas and feelings beforehand and respond accordingly.  If you want to gain information and other perspectives, you have to actively listen.  


Don’t you have any confidence in your ability to communicate your thoughts effectively?  What are you so afraid of?  

How do we learn, Wegs?"

You seriously think that was respectful?  Well, put your big boy pants on.  I have no problem seeing what was wrong with the way you addressed Leigha.  Do you really need my help to understand how condescending and belittling that was?    I am assuming this is the way people were addressing Leigha before she posted her objection to being addressed this way, and your reaction to her objection made matters worse.   However, I assume Syne approves of those condescending and belittling words because that is how the boys play.   And I am about the New Women's liberation.  I have no interest in being one of the boys.  Destroying the feminine is the first step to becoming Hitler's Germany and Trumps USA.   

Our Statue of Liberty, Lady of Justice and the Spirit of America are all female and I claim the right to fight for what I value and to oppose that which is demeaning to women.   How well do the big boy pants fit you?  Do you still want to claim innocence?  

PS, I would not speak so boldly if some of you had not stepped in and moved me out of the very threatened position I was in, as a result of Syne using the negative points as a weapon, starting when I repeatedly told him I do not read past the disrespect. He was trying to bully me into arguing with him by giving me negative points for not doing so, instead of editing the personal attacks from his post. I want to make a point here. Boys play a rough game and girls are evolved caregivers. Surely some of you want to argue that point, but this is the first time in any forum I have been in, that members have empowered me. It is rare for a woman to get so much support for her side of the argument, rather than demeaning lectures such as the one given to Leigha. Thank you!

Take some more tea, Ms. Carol.

(Dec 8, 2016 05:49 AM)Carol Wrote: What is happening here?   Is this my fault?  I am horrified by what has happened to this thread.  I made a small comment about culture, and all hell has broken loose.  Any of you remember the rioting when police were video taped beating Rodney King, and Rodney King was made the center of news, pleading with everyone, "Can't we just have peace".   

Some of us are very afraid as Trump appears to have unleashed the worst human behaviors and his appointees are military men.  How much closer do we have to get to a Military Industrial Complex, before people stop saying the Military Industrial Complex is just conspiracy talk?    Some may think Trump shouldn't be forced to separate his family from his global investments, but then how do we prevent the corruption that troubles so many countries around the world, where rulers can use national wealth and power to enhance their private wealth and power?   What kind of role model is Trump showing the world?  

Trump talk has unleashed brutal behaviors like threatening a journalist and her family, attempting to set a Muslim on fire, and other words and acts of brutality.  This is what happened when Hitler took power.  To counteract this, some of us are wearing safety pins to communicate we are safe people to talk to and not ignorant, prejudiced bigots who do not understand the national values of the democracy we defended in two world wars.

You all may think calling each other liars and other personal attacks, are harmless, but this is not harmless.  It is what happens before the horrors of Hitler's New World Order started a world war and the persecution of thousands of Jews.  I am not sure what you think needs to be said in a thread about How meaning can exist in the world, but you matter so act like it.  Choose your words and behaviors carefully.

You made a comment about an individual. If you're going to tsk-tsk people, you really should expect some blow back. If you are too sensitive to witness people strongly disagreeing, an internet forum is probably not the place for you. The only way the internet is made a "safe space" is by throttling so much free speech that what is left is boring and better suited to your social media feed (where you can maintain your own bubble).

Trump is the result, not the cause, of all the current social hate. People were already lying to indict cops, chanting in protests to kill cops, calling republicans all sorts of unsupported ad hominems, driving innocent people from their livelihoods, etc.. Do you really think Trump, or even republicans, started that? Don't you think that people who constantly feel unjustly criticized would eventually fight back? You should, since you seem to feel unjustly criticized yourself.

Really? Calling each other liars is going to lead to the next Hitler and Holocaust? LOL.

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Quote:PS, I would not speak so boldly if some of you had not stepped in and moved me out of the very threatened position I was in, as a result of Syne using the negative points as a weapon, starting when I repeatedly told him I do not read past the disrespect.  He was trying to bully me into arguing with him by giving me negative points for not doing so, instead of editing the personal attacks from his post.  I want to make a point here.  Boys play a rough game and girls are evolved caregivers.   Surely some of you want to argue that point, but this is the first time in any forum I have been in, that members have empowered me.  It is rare for a woman to get so much support for her side of the argument, rather than demeaning lectures such as the one given to Leigha.   Thank you!

You are the one who used ratings as retaliations. I didn't start that...you did. Regardless your imagined persecution complex, I could not care less if you engage me. You're still trying to dictate how people communicate. All this condescending tsk-tsking.

(Dec 8, 2016 07:09 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: Take some more tea, Ms. Carol.

Which one? I often drink ginger tea after dinner to help with digestion, but in the morning I prefer coffee.  If I can't have coffee, I will drink a green and black  tea mix.  I once had a tea from Africa that is outstanding and so naturally sweet it doesn't need sugar.  And boy, is this off topic why are we doing this?  Because, I am afraid I offended you, and I do not know the meaning you attempted to convey, so I am nervous.  

This thread is so messed up anyway, I have to story tell.  The men who gathered to write a constitution for the US were strong individualists and they could not agree on anything.  The arguing went on for days and days, and then the wives convinced everyone to have dinner together and get to know each other socially.  This socialization made the important difference between unending arguments and being able to resolve them.  

Is it possible humans give life new meaning, because of their greater social capability?

PS, I got this message from Syne "Negative (-3): lecturing others because they don't post how she likes". I want to call him out and ask him what he thinks he is doing? I think Syne thinks he is enforcing the rules and I will argue he is not. I know I am enforcing social rules, the ancient Greek understanding of moral- to know the law (the law of nature that is) and to know good manners, I think that is very important to a healthy forum.

I was going to address this in another thread, but Syne's behavior forces me to address it here. There is fast thinking and slow term thinking. Thinking consumes a lot of energy and we are designed to conserve energy by running in the fast thinking mode most the time. This is the knee-jerk mode, reacting to what someone says without giving it much thought. This is usually what results in the offensive talk and taking a subject off topic as this one has been taken off topic, but for social reasons we need to work some things out, and this is actually higher order thinking that primates and dogs can not do.

Slow thinking means thinking about the subject and thinking about what we think. It is the pondering I do when reading CC's post, doing my best to understanding the meaning of the information she provides. Other than letting her know how much I appreciate her post, it takes a lot of hard thinking to say something half intelligent about the subject. Ideally, our post are never fault finding, making someone the subject of a reply, but are slow thinking, well thought out responses to the subject. I think that is what the positive and negative point system is about.

However, if someone is fault finding and putting people on the defensive, instead of posting with intellectual integrity limited to arguing the points of the topic, this is wrong. If the new comer doesn't even understand the point system it is really wrong to repeatedly give someone bad points without explaining the system. And when someone can give a new comer with few points, -3 points, to the new comer's 1 point, the game is loaded against the new comer, and the owner of the forum may want to consider if this might be a problem? Like we don't need an expensive fence between us and Mexico. A cheap chain fence enclosing a small area filled with dogs trained to kill, will do the job.

On topic replies demand slow thinking, and should never, ever be knee-jerk, emotionally laden criticisms of the person s/he is responding to, putting that person on the defensive. Check yourself, are you thinking hard about what someone has said, or are you off the top of your head, criticizing the person who posted? The other person's faults are the subject the thread, how? Being careful- what is the subject of your sentence? And we might also keep in mind the possibility that our criticisms of others is mirroring back to us our own faults.

(Dec 8, 2016 04:45 PM)Carol Wrote: Which one? I often drink ginger tea after dinner to help with digestion, but in the morning I prefer coffee.

Coffee it is then.  

Carol Wrote:And boy, is this off topic why are we doing this?  Because, I am afraid I offended you, and I do not know the meaning you attempted to convey, so I am nervous.

 

No worries. I’m not easily offended, Ms. Carol.

Have you ever been in a room with powerful, intellectual, dominating males discussing controversial topics?  You have to, not only know the subject matter, but pay attention to their body language, as well. They’re bigger and stronger.  

This is a safe place.

You enter the room, one male is standing, leaning against a counter with his arms crossed.  He’s not open to hearing what you have to say.  A female, well, she may be cold, uncomfortable with her breast size, or nervous and wearing something without pockets.

Like you, most females prefer to exchange information and gain support.  For men, it’s a contest.  When they want to exchange information and gain support, they sit side by side. We sit face to face.  

Carol Wrote:This thread is so messed up anyway, I have to story tell.  The men who gathered to write a constitution for the US were strong individualists and they could not agree on anything.  The arguing went on for days and days, and then the wives convinced everyone to have dinner together and get to know each other socially.  This socialization made the important difference between unending arguments and being able to resolve them.

Who are we kidding here?  Females are very aggressive.  Our hierarchy runs horizontally.  You’re either in or out.  It is very difficult, if not impossible to get back in.  Theirs is vertical and safer.  You can remain in the group, fall down or climb up, but you can continue to move either way.  

Carol Wrote:You seriously think that was respectful?  Well, put your big boy pants on.  I have no problem seeing what was wrong with the way you addressed Leigha.  Do you really need my help to understand how condescending and belittling that was?

Over the years, Scheherazade has used her real picture as an avatar.  She wants to have intimate and honest discussions, but she’s not afraid to tackle controversy.  

Leigha’s avatar was a picture of a pretty girl with glasses. It wasn’t her or a celebrity, indicating that she, not only wants to be liked, but that she likes attention, which is why I invited her.  She contributes quality conversation starters.  

Do you really think I’m after a bromance, Ms. Carol?  My neighbor said he finds me intriguing, would love to have me as a friend. I would like that because he’s extremely intelligent, a history buff.  He’s always knocking at my door.  I’m blunt.  He’s blunt.  I asked him if he thought it was possible for men and women to be just friends.  "Well, there’s always going to be a certain amount of attraction, which may or may not interfere."  He held out his hand, moving it up and down in my direction.  "How could there not be?  My dog keeps company but I can’t have sex with my dog."  We exchange pleasantries now.  We’re not friends.

Carol Wrote:Slow thinking means thinking about the subject and thinking about what we think. It is the pondering I do when reading CC's post, doing my best to understanding the meaning of the information she provides. Other than letting her know how much I appreciate her post, it takes a lot of hard thinking to say something half intelligent about the subject. Ideally, our post are never fault finding, making someone the subject of a reply, but are slow thinking, well thought out responses to the subject.

C C…she’s different.  She’s smart.  She’s been around the block.  You can disagree or even offend her.  She may not respond to an unworthy offense, but I don’t think you’d catch her trying to hand out the social death penalty like most women.

Carol Wrote:I know I am enforcing social rules, the ancient Greek understanding of moral- to know the law (the law of nature that is) and to know good manners, I think that is very important to a healthy forum.

What do you want to do, Ms. Carol, live in treacle well and be ill?  

Conformity…not a fan.

Sure, if you’d like, we could join you in getting Syne banned, but if you continue to stamp about and shout 'Off with his' or 'Off with her head'.  There’d be no one left.

Carol Wrote:Is it possible humans give life new meaning, because of their greater social capability?

I apologize.  I recognize the cheesiness, but his tale does contain real-world lessons.


So, Ms. Carol, put on your big girl pants and let’s play.

(Dec 8, 2016 04:45 PM)Carol Wrote: PS, I got this message from Syne "Negative (-3): lecturing others because they don't post how she likes".  I want to call him out and ask him what he thinks he is doing?

If you can't be bothered to address my civil posts to you, why should I bother to explain anything to you? Respect is a two-way street.

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(Dec 8, 2016 07:54 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: Sure, if you’d like, we could join you in getting Syne banned...

See, Carol, this is what you started. Happy now?

Alright, this is getting ridiculous.  Fuck it!  Let’s 86 the little prick.