Biden's Covid ''team'' discussing another national lockdown

Can the country survive another lockdown? (not only economically, but psychologically) 

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-os...rd-2020-11

While those living in metropolitan areas may have to struggle more with being cooped indoors during a lockdown, in the country getting outside is still an option (barring the bordeom of treeless flatland in all directions). Introverts may surprisingly need the outdoors more than extroverts. (Also: Are Extroverts Suffering More From The Quarantine? Not So Fast, Says New Research)

Much of the psychological discomfort is probably an item that 20th and 21st century generations acquired, rather than being inherent in people. Before the mass movement to cities in the late 19th-century, most of the population lived on isolated properties -- adults were constricted to "regular" social interactions with household members and any neighbors who happened live within less than a mile. Travel was slow, so a family might only venture to town for supplies anywhere from once a week to once a month. Forget about frequently attending recreational places, festive events, movies, restaurants and other urban circumstances.

Of course, Church assembly did provide social mingling at least once a week. Granting that those buildings were as sprinkled on the rural countryside as the single-room schoolhouses which did routinely place children together after lengthy walks, apart from summer months.

Moron Democrats seem intent on destroying the economy, whether through lock downs, job killing regulation and taxes, or idiotic climate schemes.
But yeah, the knock-on effects of people being cooped up without jobs is likely far worse. Biden already working on his own death count.

(Nov 13, 2020 01:17 AM)Syne Wrote: Moron Democrats seem intent on destroying the economy, whether through lock downs, job killing regulation and taxes, or idiotic climate schemes.
But yeah, the knock-on effects of people being cooped up without jobs is likely far worse. Biden already working on his own death count.

We can at least get some facts about Covid 19. A quick search suggests 1 in 5 of those infected will require hospital treatment. This would suggest that of (roughly) 12 million infected Americans there would have been over 2 million hospital admissions - has this actually happened or is the 1 in 5 figure wrong?

If the infection rate stayed at (say) the November 2020 rate of 160,000 new infections every day we would expect roughly 30,000 new hospital admissions every day - again is this happening?  

Without precautions one might (wild guess here) expect the infection rate to slow with half the population infected as the virus starts to run out of people to infect - so 150 million Americans infected, 30 million hospital admissions and (at 2% death rate) 3 million deaths.

Obviously the 1 in 5 hospital admissions could be wrong (you have any facts about this?), the death rate could be lower (or higher). 

Try for a little clarity using real data so we can see what you regard as 'acceptable'.

(Nov 18, 2020 02:24 PM)confused2 Wrote:

(Nov 13, 2020 01:17 AM)Syne Wrote: Moron Democrats seem intent on destroying the economy, whether through lock downs, job killing regulation and taxes, or idiotic climate schemes.
But yeah, the knock-on effects of people being cooped up without jobs is likely far worse. Biden already working on his own death count.

We can at least get some facts about Covid 19. A quick search suggests 1 in 5 of those infected will require hospital treatment. This would suggest that of (roughly) 12 million infected Americans there would have been over 2 million hospital admissions - has this actually happened or is the 1 in 5 figure wrong?

If the infection rate stayed at (say) the November 2020 rate of 160,000 new infections every day we would expect roughly 30,000 new hospital admissions every day - again is this happening?  

Without precautions one might (wild guess here) expect the infection rate to slow with half the population infected as the virus starts to run out of people to infect - so 150 million Americans infected, 30 million hospital admissions and (at 2% death rate) 3 million deaths.

Obviously the 1 in 5 hospital admissions could be wrong (you have any facts about this?), the death rate could be lower (or higher). 

Try for a little clarity using real data so we can see what you regard as 'acceptable'.

The overall cumulative COVID-19-associated hospitalization rate through the week ending November 7, 2020 was 217.2 hospitalizations per 100,000 population.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nco...index.html

That's way less than 1%, much less your 1 in 5 (20%).

And the total US deaths is 254,563 compared to 11,715,041 infections. Again, only about a 0.02% death rate. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Hospitals are not being overwhelmed in the US.

(Nov 18, 2020 06:03 PM)Syne Wrote:

(Nov 18, 2020 02:24 PM)confused2 Wrote:

(Nov 13, 2020 01:17 AM)Syne Wrote: Moron Democrats seem intent on destroying the economy, whether through lock downs, job killing regulation and taxes, or idiotic climate schemes.
But yeah, the knock-on effects of people being cooped up without jobs is likely far worse. Biden already working on his own death count.

We can at least get some facts about Covid 19. A quick search suggests 1 in 5 of those infected will require hospital treatment. This would suggest that of (roughly) 12 million infected Americans there would have been over 2 million hospital admissions - has this actually happened or is the 1 in 5 figure wrong?

If the infection rate stayed at (say) the November 2020 rate of 160,000 new infections every day we would expect roughly 30,000 new hospital admissions every day - again is this happening?  

Without precautions one might (wild guess here) expect the infection rate to slow with half the population infected as the virus starts to run out of people to infect - so 150 million Americans infected, 30 million hospital admissions and (at 2% death rate) 3 million deaths.

Obviously the 1 in 5 hospital admissions could be wrong (you have any facts about this?), the death rate could be lower (or higher). 

Try for a little clarity using real data so we can see what you regard as 'acceptable'.

The overall cumulative COVID-19-associated hospitalization rate through the week ending November 7, 2020 was 217.2 hospitalizations per 100,000 population.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nco...index.html

That's way less than 1%, much less your 1 in 5 (20%).

And the total US deaths is 254,563 compared to 11,715,041 infections. Again, only about a 0.02% death rate. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Hospitals are not being overwhelmed in the US.

I have to conclude the '1 in 5' figure for hospitalisation (source 'the Internet') is poorly sourced and may be an artifact of only testing people who already have serious symptoms.  I take your 217 hospitalisations per 100,000 (source CDC) as being the relevant figure for America - so, as you suggest, US hospitals may have sufficient capacity.

Unfortunately your figure of 0.02% death rate does not match the source you quote. 254,563 deaths from  11,715,041 is about a 2% death rate. As in my post above where I suggested (guessed) a leveling of with half the population infected (150 million) this would suggest 3 million deaths. 

As before - either taking my guesswork or suggesting a better approach - are (for example) 3 million deaths acceptable?  

(Nov 12, 2020 08:22 PM)Leigha Wrote: Can the country survive another lockdown? (not only economically, but psychologically)

Here in California, the lockdown has been more of less continuous for the last eight months. When it started in March, there was the "15 days to stop the spread" slogan. Then that was extended a few times. Gradually it turned into an open-ended 'It will stop when we tell you'. Right now, there's no expectation that it will ever end. Everyone is talking about "the new normal".

The result, perhaps intentional, perhaps not, has been to basically destroy small business. The little shops up and down main streets are all closed or open under such restrictions that they can't be profitable. Many likely will never reopen. Landlords aren't getting rent. And soon, taxes aren't going to be paid.

Of course the federal government can simply print money. And they will enact "relief" measures, providing funds to state and local governments... provided that those governments behave as demanded. State and local autonomy will increasingly be a thing of the past as everyone and everything becomes more dependent for its survival on Washington (or on London, Ottawa, Brussels or whatever it is).

While the local options (in everything) are being suppressed, the big politically-connected corporations all seem to have a special dispensation that declares them "essential". So all the business that went to the little main street shops is now going to Amazon and straight into Jeff Bezos' pocket. You know that he just loves the shutdowns and has probably been lobbying behind the scenes for them to continue. We can't gather at the local bar or restaurant, but Mark Zuckerberg's Facebook is going strong. Gather on-line, they say, so they can monopolize our social lives too. Live entertainment is dead, but television and netflix are still there. Anything unique and alternative is drying up and blowing away like dust.

If it's big and controlled by elites top-down, it's encouraged to continue. If it's small, a grass-roots matter of people choosing for themselves where to spend their time and their creative energies, it's being suppressed. The same thing is playing out throughout our lives. I'm starting to suspect that it's intentional social-engineering, designed to herd all the cats into a few channels all controlled by the same few big players. Liberty, choice and autonomy in one's own life? Increasingly a thing of the past.

The disease originated in China. Perhaps in more ways than one.

(Nov 18, 2020 10:55 PM)Yazata Wrote:

(Nov 12, 2020 08:22 PM)Leigha Wrote: Can the country survive another lockdown? (not only economically, but psychologically)

Here in California, the lockdown has been more of less continuous for the last eight months. When it started in March, there was the "15 days to stop the spread" slogan. Then is was extended a few times, then it was an open-ended 'It will stop when we tell you' sort of thing. Right now, there's no expectation that it will ever end. Everyone is talking about "the new normal".

The result, perhaps intentional, perhaps not, has been to basically destroy small business. The little shops up and down main streets are all closed or open under such restrictions that they can't be profitable. Many likely will never reopen. Landlords aren't getting rent. And soon, taxes aren't going to be paid.

But the big corporations all seem to have a special dispensation that declares them "essential". So all the business that went to the little main street shops is now going to Amazon and straight into Jeff Bezos' pocket. You know that he just loves the shutdowns and has probably been lobbying behind the scenes for them to continue. We can't gather at the local bar or restaurant, but Facebook is going strong. Gather on-line, they say, so they can monopolize our social lives too. Live entertainment is dead, but television and netflix are still there.

If it's big and controlled by elites top-down, it's encouraged to continue. If it's small, a matter of you choosing where to go, it's suppressed. The same thing playing out throughout our lives. I'm starting to suspect that it's intentional social-engineering, designed to herd all the cats into a few channels all controlled by the same few big players. Liberty, choice and autonomy in one's own life? A thing of the past.

I really wonder what kind of impact this is having on children and on schooling. I wonder how many struggling colleges and universities will survive.

If the lockdown [in CA] has been more of less continuous for the last eight months how is the virus spreading? There's no magic to this - in the UK we had a lockdown and it worked - we went back to pretty much normal and we now have wave #2 so back to lockdown.  8 months???

(Nov 18, 2020 10:55 PM)Yazata Wrote: Here in California, the lockdown has been more of less continuous for the last eight months. When it started in March, there was the "15 days to stop the spread" slogan. Then that was extended a few times. Gradually it turned into an open-ended 'It will stop when we tell you'. Right now, there's no expectation that it will ever end. Everyone is talking about "the new normal".

The result, perhaps intentional, perhaps not, has been to basically destroy small business. The little shops up and down main streets are all closed or open under such restrictions that they can't be profitable. Many likely will never reopen. Landlords aren't getting rent. And soon, taxes aren't going to be paid.

I really wonder what kind of impact this is having on children and on schooling. I wonder how many struggling colleges and universities will survive. The big ones and the elite ones will, we know that the state universities and the ivy league will still be there. But will your little small town liberal arts college? Probably not.

While the little options (in everything) are being suppressed, the big corporations all seem to have a special dispensation that declares them "essential". So all the business that went to the little main street shops is now going to Amazon and straight into Jeff Bezos' pocket. You know that he just loves the shutdowns and has probably been lobbying behind the scenes for them to continue. We can't gather at the local bar or restaurant, but Facebook is going strong. Gather on-line, they say, so they can monopolize our social lives too. Live entertainment is dead, but television and netflix are still there.

If it's big and controlled by elites top-down, it's encouraged to continue. If it's small, a grass-roots matter of people choosing for themselves where to spend their time and energies, it's suppressed. The same thing is playing out throughout our lives. I'm starting to suspect that it's intentional social-engineering, designed to herd all the cats into a few channels all controlled by the same few big players. Liberty, choice and autonomy in one's own life? Increasingly a thing of the past.

Makes one appreciate being in a red state. But I wonder how long that luxury is going to last once slash if the Coastal Agenda becomes nation-wide via puppet Bejing Biden.