Hearts ripped from 140 children in largest child sacrifice in Ancient World

#1
https://www.livescience.com/64924-childr...-peru.html

INTRO: The largest child sacrifice on record took place after a torrential rainfall, when about 140 children and 200 young llamas likely had their hearts ripped out by the ancient Chimú culture in A.D. 1450, in what is now Peru. The reason for the sacrifice, however, remains a mystery, according to a new study. Even so, the scientists of the study have several ideas.

For instance, heavy rainfall and flooding from that year's El Niño weather pattern may have prompted Chimú leaders to order the sacrifice, but without more evidence, we'll likely never know the real reason, said study co-researcher John Verano, a professor in the Department of Anthropology at Tulane University in New Orleans.

[...] "It's the largest child sacrifice event in the archaeological record anywhere in the world," Verano said. "And it's the largest sacrifice with llamas in South America. There's nothing like this anywhere else."

MORE: https://www.livescience.com/64924-childr...-peru.html

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Some current, devil acolyte of old Hume sarcastically whispering in your ear, encouraging heresy toward the new perspective:

Right.... An "ought" can be got from an "is". Adult human beings ought to protect and cherish and instruct children. Just how beholden can that rule be to existential relationships and dynamics if it is not universally obvious to either different species or different cultures, or there are these exceptions?

Right... There are no multiple, rival possibilities for behavior or moral prescription that ontological circumstances of the environment and the evolutionary development of a species itself can yield concerning _X_. Just one, The One, no need to justify it, no need to invent slash prescribe and defend anything else... Just let raw be-ing establish "what is right" and enforce its globally proper conduct which is inescapably evident and manifested.


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#2
Cultures that do not recognize that people ought to protect children typically have a lack of respect for human life in general, whether through human sacrifice to gods or abortion on demand, assisted suicide, and euthanasia...where whatever the god of almighty government sanctions is unthinkingly considered moral by its devotees.
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#3
If it had anything to do with religion then I’m going to need someone once again to remind me that religion doesn’t kill. Let’s see, attempting new surgical techniques, testing a new blade, much needed specimens for anatomy class? I think not.
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#4
Religion doesn't kill. People kill. And generalizing all religion from one ancient heathen one is just stupid.
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#5
Who cares if it’s ancient, heathen, modern, etc. No adjective will take away the fact it’s a religion. Get rid of religion and at least you’ll eliminate a reason to kill.
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#6
(Mar 7, 2019 05:46 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: If it had anything to do with religion then I’m going to need someone once again to remind me that religion doesn’t kill. Let’s see, attempting new surgical techniques, testing a new blade, much needed specimens for anatomy class? I think not.


Plus the practice was widespread throughout Meso and South America, not just that region, culture, era.

Child sacrifice in pre-Columbian cultures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sacr...n_cultures

I remember PBS having an hour-long program on this Mayan discovery back in 2005. It included depictions of priests buying the children from parents, though that might have been speculation on the part of the researchers. (Don't recall if there was any support from artwork, other archeological evidence, European accounts, or verbal handed-down story traditions.)

Can't exactly say it takes the "noble" out of "noble savages", because these were the "civilized cultures" of the New World, at least in terms of architectural and engineering feats. Either exposure or direct infanticide was common in the Old World "civilizations", too. Though the latter could be declared illegal, violators were rarely prosecuted (a far cry from CSI or even the crudest detective work back then).

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#7
(Mar 7, 2019 06:14 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Who cares if it’s ancient, heathen, modern, etc. No adjective will take away the fact it’s a religion. Get rid of religion and at least you’ll eliminate a reason to kill.

Nah, just your own anti-religious bias on display. Not all religions condone, much less teach, violence. And people/cultures bent on killing will always find some other justification. IOW, your wishful thinking wouldn't even have an impact. But keep the faith, brother. Angel
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#8
(Mar 7, 2019 06:31 AM)Syne Wrote:
(Mar 7, 2019 06:14 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Who cares if it’s ancient, heathen, modern, etc. No adjective will take away the fact it’s a religion. Get rid of religion and at least you’ll eliminate a reason to kill.

Nah, just your own anti-religious bias on display. Not all religions condone, much less teach, violence. And people/cultures bent on killing will always find some other justification. IOW, your wishful thinking wouldn't even have an impact. But keep the faith, brother.  Angel

Basically that’s what I said. I never said all but you said some, and I don’t see a difference. 

Another disturbing aspect of the Chimu discovery is the llama slaughter. My poor intuitive math skills are telling me that 200 llamas might just equal 140 children. If these sacrificial kids were purchased then they weren’t worth much more than a llama in those days. So I’m thinking another 200 llamas would have paid the debt to their god(s) which leads me to possibly conclude that it was much easier to sell a kid than a llama if the former was in good supply. 

Here’s my guess. At any one time there may have been an epidemic running through the area. No vaccinations in those days. Simple solution would be kill the sick kids and toss in a few llamas. Could be a coincidence where both humans and llamas had something going on at same time, calling for drastic measures (sacrifices). Perhaps all cultures that sacrifice do so because they’ve made a connection between disease and carriers, who knows, the priests can call it a sacrifice to a god just to ease the emotional pain of letting your kid have open heart surgery performed on an altar. Could all of these sacrifices simply be Mercy Kills? Could the kids already have been dead before the ritual performed?
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#9
(Mar 7, 2019 01:22 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:
(Mar 7, 2019 06:31 AM)Syne Wrote:
(Mar 7, 2019 06:14 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Who cares if it’s ancient, heathen, modern, etc. No adjective will take away the fact it’s a religion. Get rid of religion and at least you’ll eliminate a reason to kill.

Nah, just your own anti-religious bias on display. Not all religions condone, much less teach, violence. And people/cultures bent on killing will always find some other justification. IOW, your wishful thinking wouldn't even have an impact. But keep the faith, brother.  Angel

Basically that’s what I said. I never said all but you said some, and I don’t see a difference.

No, it's not basically what you said. Even if you could eliminate a "reason" to kill, it wouldn't actually stop any killing. Murder is not something that is dependent upon having a reason, and motive often differs from justification. "Get rid of religion", without any further qualification, implies all, and if you don't understand the difference between getting rid of "some" (the sick to stem an epidemic) and "all" (genocide), that sounds like a serious personal problem.
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#10
(Mar 7, 2019 01:22 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Another disturbing aspect of the Chimu discovery is the llama slaughter. My poor intuitive math skills are telling me that 200 llamas might just equal 140 children. If these sacrificial kids were purchased then they weren’t worth much more than a llama in those days. So I’m thinking another 200 llamas would have paid the debt to their god(s) which leads me to possibly conclude that it was much easier to sell a kid than a llama if the former was in good supply. 

Here’s my guess. At any one time there may have been an epidemic running through the area. No vaccinations in those days. Simple solution would be kill the sick kids and toss in a few llamas. Could be a coincidence where both humans and llamas had something going on at same time, calling for drastic measures (sacrifices). Perhaps all cultures that sacrifice do so because they’ve made a connection between disease and carriers, who knows, the priests can call it a sacrifice to a god just to ease the emotional pain of letting your kid have open heart surgery performed on an altar. Could all of these sacrifices simply be Mercy Kills? Could the kids already have been dead before the ritual performed?


Some may have been children of prisoners or slaves taken from rebellious areas of the state. The Chimú probably believed in life after death, and may have deemed the children even being exalted to some high status because of the gods relishing their innocence. The later Aztecs (different geographical location, too) were renown for sacrificing living prisoners of enemy or insurgent populations, in great numbers. Ripping out still-beating hearts was a big deal for them especially.

Back then, evidence related to the 2005 Mayan child-sacrifice discoveries seemed to indicate that the priests bashed the skulls of the kids in while still alive, though they could have been given ceremonial and sleep-inducing substances beforehand.

Moreover, these children were not all locals. Some of the children had experienced head shaping, and an analysis of carbon and nitrogen isotopes (an isotope is a variation of an element) in their remains showed that these kids came from different regions and ethnic groups within the Chimú state, the researchers found.

He added that while human sacrifice is reviled in our modern society, "we have to remember that the Chimú had a very different world view than Westerners today. They also had very different concepts about death and the role each person plays in the cosmos," Williams, who was not involved with the study, told Live Science in an email. Given that the sacrifice may have been in response to devastating floods, "perhaps the victims went willingly as messengers to their gods, or perhaps Chimú society believed this was the only way to save more people from destruction," Williams said.


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