Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

Just taking a personal inventory, if you will. 

What are you the happiest about in your life? How do you define success? Do you think that happiness can ever be a permanent state of mind, or is it fleeting? 

Is it wrong to want sustainability when it comes to happiness?

Happiness is the ability to work toward achieving attainable goals. It is not an end in itself; it is a byproduct of having a purpose that keeps you engaged in life and provides some pleasure and sense of accomplishment along the way. Similarly, success is only something to strive for. It is never truly attained, since goals should evolve as we grow.

Personally, I have many goals I am pursuing at any given time. Perhaps too many at times, but I cycle through them.

The thing to sustain is a purpose. Happiness will then take care of itself.

Suppose you fall short of your goal, or don't achieve it at all, does it change your state of happiness? Do you feel that happiness is a state of mind at all, or just a feeling, similar to sadness, or anger. Is it contingent on something external happening in your life, or that you have willed to happen? Or do you see it as a state of being?

I hesitate to cling to goals, for if I don't reach them, I will feel disappointed. Maybe that is part of striving, one will feel disappointment, and it's necessary for our growth.

How do you define [...] happiness?

The classic quote below is a sufficient enough summary with respect to what I (somewhat reflexively or unconsciously) seek to accommodate. It should probably be augmented with not suffering excessively in terms of basic needs, health, and security... with that extended to the welfare of any immediate family members.

George Washington Burnap: "The three grand essentials of happiness are: Something to do, someone to love, and something to hope for."

(Oct 31, 2018 02:35 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ][...] Do you think that happiness can ever be a permanent state of mind, or is it fleeting?

Judging from the word-unit looks of the term itself, I'm guessing "happiness" is a generalization or average value assessment of how one's life has been going over a span of time. Switching to the specific level, a feeling of bliss would certainly not be continuous or non-interrupted (barring any miracle person who has managed to remain constantly high on drugs since early childhood).

Quote:Is it wrong to want sustainability when it comes to happiness?

The idea that "happiness" should be an expected norm or goal of being human -- as well as obligatorily conveying an impression of enjoying a felicitous life to the public -- is arguably a novel concept rather than an historically entrenched standard. It may also primarily be an outlook of the West, the familiarity with it gradually distributed worldwide in "recent" times (especially by 18th-century American endorsement and later pop-culture).

Which is to say, I don't know if the idea has been around long enough for a "right or wrong" judgment to be pertinent. Though the possibility slash impossibility of technically and literally achieving constant positive feelings or activity may be addressable. After that (if the case), then maybe potential moral and cultural consequences could be examined.

Quote:[...] What are you the happiest about in your life?

"My offspring" seems to not only be a duty-bound response, but curiously perhaps the sole default one I bother to carry around ready at hand.

In the specific and transitory sense, instead of myself I tend to apply the adjective "happy" to someone else's purely current, superficial appearances or outer emotional state (could even be a pet or animal, and possibly a crowd).

I'm more like observing that "I'm feeling miserable today" (when that happens), than in observing and celebrating "Wow, I'm happy or not miserable today." Although "I'm happy about _X_" can probably occur as a feeling, and routinely does as part of polite conversation ("I'm so happy for your promotion.")

Quote:[...] How do you define success? [...]

"Success" seems to imply, even entail, a global standard that individuals are trying to meet or measure up to. I.e., what would be the point of the noun in a population of one or even a few? Achievement arises or acquires significance via the comparisons and rivalry of numbers, and the guilt-trip memes that society infects the individual with if they don't strive for that level of accomplishment or reach at least a median stage of it. (But maybe differing contexts / domains could each have its own "success" characteristics and yardstick that is supposed to be ubiquitous in range.)

Accordingly, any personal or subjective meaning I might have for "success" would seem to be in conflict with the concept potentially needing to be universally applicable (at least in a particular context or domain) rather than just satisfying or being confined to me.

~

Happiness is not achieving a goal; it's only working toward a goal. And any goal(s) can change. Achieving a goal just means another purpose must be found, and failure may either require a new attempt or a new goal. Happiness is a general sense (and likely state) of well-being, some might describe as flow: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...-happiness

I don't think happiness is externally contingent, since anyone can make progress toward any goal at any time, even if only planning/visualizing in a way that feels like progress. Although fleeting happiness (a feeling) can have external sources, like when a positive experience completely absorbs your attention.

Disappointment likely only exists where you've either given up on an attainable, but temporarily thwarted, goal or you are holding onto external negativity that is coloring your thoughts.

I have learned how to go into flow at will, but I doubt I could explain what I'm doing. It's a case of being in flow often enough to recognize the triggers, so to speak, and then being able to enter it without even having a specific goal in mind. The best analogy I can think of would be reading a really good book. If you're like me, you get so engrossed that your environment fades away, including sound, and you're not even aware of the words on the page while reading them. A book is passive though; it just happens.

Happiness is a spurious goal, particularly if it entails a state of constant giddy euphoria. I aim for peaceful contentment. It is much easier to achieve, and doesn't rely on one accomplishing certain goals in life. Being content is simply basking in the everyday pleasures of life's existence. The daily routines and unexpected flourishes of nature. It is the joy of a humble and open-hearted existence. Nothing lacking. Nothing else needed. The felt value of simply being alive and open to the world.

As for success?

“If the day and the night are such that you greet them with joy, and life emits a fragrance like flowers and sweet-scented herbs, is more elastic, more starry, more immortal—that is your success.”
― Henry David Thoreau, Walden

Syne is always going on about biases, but just from experience, the one that you have to really watch out for in regards to goals is the projection bias. Been there, done that plenty of times. It’s very difficult to avoid. You think you know yourself so well but you’d be surprised by how much you can change, especially when it comes to goals or wants.

"The tendency to overestimate how much our future selves share one's current preferences, thoughts and values, thus leading to sub-optimal choices."

(Oct 31, 2018 06:51 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Happiness is not achieving a goal; it's only working toward a goal. And any goal(s) can change. Achieving a goal just means another purpose must be found, and failure may either require a new attempt or a new goal. Happiness is a general sense (and likely state) of well-being, some might describe as flow: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...-happiness

I don't think happiness is externally contingent, since anyone can make progress toward any goal at any time, even if only planning/visualizing in a way that feels like progress. Although fleeting happiness (a feeling) can have external sources, like when a positive experience completely absorbs your attention.

Disappointment likely only exists where you've either given up on an attainable, but temporarily thwarted, goal or you are holding onto external negativity that is coloring your thoughts.

I have learned how to go into flow at will, but I doubt I could explain what I'm doing. It's a case of being in flow often enough to recognize the triggers, so to speak, and then being able to enter it without even having a specific goal in mind. The best analogy I can think of would be reading a really good book. If you're like me, you get so engrossed that your environment fades away, including sound, and you're not even aware of the words on the page while reading them. A book is passive though; it just happens.

Temporarily thwarted. How does one know it's only temporary? How does one know when it's time to say ...this just isn't working, and I'm done trying? Or maybe success lurks just around the corner, if I keep striving?

I'm asking for a friend.  

I think of inventors, who never gave up, but I wonder if they wanted to. Perhaps the journey towards success is about wanting to quit, but not quitting. Perhaps happiness is about finding a path past the obstacles that at the time, seem insurmountable. People who achieve their goals, aren't immune to pity parties, are they? I've been successful in different areas of my life, and I always forget the struggle. Did Einstein struggle, or are there people who seem to fly above what many of us mere mortals go through? If I'm being honest, anyone who is human, struggles with something.

---

(Oct 31, 2018 08:15 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]Happiness is a spurious goal, particularly if it entails a state of constant giddy euphoria. I aim for peaceful contentment. It is much easier to achieve, and doesn't rely on one achieving certain goals in life. Being content is simply basking in the everyday pleasures of life's existence. The daily routines and unexpected flourishes of nature. It is the joy of a humble and open-hearted existence. Nothing lacking. Nothing else needed. The felt value of simply being alive and open to the world.

As for success?

“If the day and the night are such that you greet them with joy, and life emits a fragrance like flowers and sweet-scented herbs, is more elastic, more starry, more immortal—that is your success.”
― Henry David Thoreau, Walden

Constant giddy euphoria. Sometimes, I want that. Just to see what a life without any struggles at all, would feel like.

I think we have issues as a culture, accepting suffering as a means to becoming happy. Or happier. Or even happiest. So many alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts, etc looking for something to escape the pain of reality. Peaceful contentment, even when things are bleak, is what I hope to attain (and sustain), as well. It's what we all ultimately desire, perhaps, but it's not easy to attain. 

I'm not trying to weave success into happiness, as if the two are somehow married to one another. If you're not successful, then how can you be happy? No, I ask both questions together because it does seem like we involuntarily weave the two concepts, together. I don't want to feel that way, anymore. And I don't want others to define success for me, because it's subjective, wouldn't we all agree?

I'm happy to be alive.

Only 1 thing pisses me off..... I don't know everything

(Oct 31, 2018 08:15 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]Syne is always going on about biases, but just from experience, the one that you have to really watch out for in regards to goals is the projection bias. Been there, done that plenty of times. It’s very difficult to avoid. You think you know yourself so well but you’d be surprised by how much you can change, especially when it comes to goals or wants.

Those on the right are no where near as susceptible to projection bias as those on the left, because everyone lives in a world saturated with leftist opinion, in music, movies, news, TV, education, etc.. Even diehard fans of Fox News can't help but face leftists narratives in every other form of media they imbibe.

It doesn't matter how much your goals may change; they're suppose to do that.

---

(Oct 31, 2018 09:11 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]

(Oct 31, 2018 06:51 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Happiness is not achieving a goal; it's only working toward a goal. And any goal(s) can change. Achieving a goal just means another purpose must be found, and failure may either require a new attempt or a new goal. Happiness is a general sense (and likely state) of well-being, some might describe as flow: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...-happiness

I don't think happiness is externally contingent, since anyone can make progress toward any goal at any time, even if only planning/visualizing in a way that feels like progress. Although fleeting happiness (a feeling) can have external sources, like when a positive experience completely absorbs your attention.

Disappointment likely only exists where you've either given up on an attainable, but temporarily thwarted, goal or you are holding onto external negativity that is coloring your thoughts.

I have learned how to go into flow at will, but I doubt I could explain what I'm doing. It's a case of being in flow often enough to recognize the triggers, so to speak, and then being able to enter it without even having a specific goal in mind. The best analogy I can think of would be reading a really good book. If you're like me, you get so engrossed that your environment fades away, including sound, and you're not even aware of the words on the page while reading them. A book is passive though; it just happens.

Temporarily thwarted. How does one know it's only temporary? How does one know when it's time to say ...this just isn't working, and I'm done trying? Or maybe success lurks just around the corner, if I keep striving?

I'm asking for a friend.  

I think of inventors, who never gave up, but I wonder if they wanted to. Perhaps the journey towards success is about wanting to quit, but not quitting. Perhaps happiness is about finding a path past the obstacles that at the time, seem insurmountable. People who achieve their goals, aren't immune to pity parties, are they? I've been successful in different areas of my life, and I always forget the struggle. Did Einstein struggle, or are there people who seem to fly above what many of us mere mortals go through? If I'm being honest, anyone who is human, struggles with something.

You know it's time to move on when the goal is no longer a passion. And moving on doesn't mean that goal cannot be picked up again later. Like I said, I often cycle through goals, leaving frustrating ones alone for a while to focus on others, but I eventually get renewed energy to pursue them again. That may be one of the tricks to it. A single, all-consuming goal is probably a bad idea. It's a scarcity of goals. And since pursuing goals is a means to happiness, the more goals the better. That way you always have something to work toward.

Inventors, from my own limited experience, know when to let the mind have time to work out problems in the background. It's like the name/word you're trying so hard to remember but suddenly comes to you hours later, once you've forgotten about it. But yeah, there is a bit of self-discipline and perseverance involved. Another problem people face is not parsing out a goal into manageable steps. Too much focus on the mountain top, instead of the next step, can easily overwhelm you and seem insurmountable.

Self-pity is definitely a bad coping strategy, and high achievers are largely immune to it. I wouldn't consider myself a high achiever, per se, but I never indulge in self-pity. And that's what it is, an indulgence. It's giving in to thoughts that really do not originate with you.