Close encounter of the 5th kind in Monterrey Mexico

[stryder]

I'm still unclear on what you're talking about, I'm afraid. Could you be more specific? I don't see how spooking someone relates to peeking in a dressing room.

What I'm saying is the study which might initially have been fraternity orientated of such phenomena (through the usage of technology) would move beyond the simple tests and pranks that might go hand in hand, towards being far more outrageous.

I rationalise this because I know for a fact that such manipulation occurs. It's not the same as schizophrenia because we aren't talking about a fiction being invented. It's something that can't easily be escaped, drugs won't stop something that is external only the right sort of shielding has a chance to since the method currently used is still heavily bound to Radio Frequency usage. (This could change however should Non-locality research move further, since it won't be as easy to detect using shielding or scramblers etc.)

While the How is science, the Who and Why is speculative because at the end of the day it's completely illegal to commit such acts, it can be classed as both a Terrorist threat as well as a National security risk. Those people doing it hide up so they don't get shot! (or locked up for a very long time)

[Syne]

That either didn't help, because you're not wanting to come right out with it, or you are talking about mind control. If the latter, that is no more credibility than alien telepathy. Why would you even think that delusion is dependent on external energy? Asserting that a well-established field of study is completely wrong in favor of an unevidenced conspiracy theory is, in many ways, worse than claiming alien telepathy. At least alien telepathy isn't refuting known fields of study, even if it is at odds with any evidenced explanation.

[stryder]

That either didn't help, because you're not wanting to come right out with it, or you are talking about mind control. If the latter, that is no more credibility than alien telepathy. Why would you even think that delusion is dependent on external energy? Asserting that a well-established field of study is completely wrong in favor of an unevidenced conspiracy theory is, in many ways, worse than claiming alien telepathy. At least alien telepathy isn't refuting known fields of study, even if it is at odds with any evidenced explanation.

I'm not sure what you are expecting me to come out with.

I'll put it as simply as possible without skirting around it.  I've been dealing with an external influence for about 18 years.  People like yourself will quite happily jump on the schizophrenia bandwagon, however it's not schizophrenia, in fact it's pretty damn ludicrous that people can project the concept of schizophrenia on people that are abused by such systems.    If it was some mental loop, some repetitive thought process, then there would be a lot more repetition. It's external because on the rare occasion I've actually had it lose signal strength (A couple of thunderstorms and being in the cellar of a shop that had a lot of iron beam work)

The fact remains that I deal with people 24/7.  I have discussions with them (much to the unfortunate situation it causes my neighbours), if it was a manifestation of my own, it would get stale, I certainly wouldn't be able to maintain it for 18 years.  I've tried to talk some sense into them by asking them to come clean, however they want to be career criminals by how they operate.  It kind of reminds me of how the Nazi's used people that they considered lesser than themselves in their experiments and makes me wonder a bit in regards to what sort of Psychopaths our governments allow to run such operations.  As they clearly can't be reasoned with, they aren't doing their operations to forward Science, perhaps just for theft, or using people like myself as a guinea pig to test a system for some corporate whore to use differently at a later date.

The reality is though I can't state who they are because they don't want to come forwards, I can't direct a lawyer to file for an injunction against their misuse because they want to pretend they don't exist and people like yourselves fall for their shit every time.  If what they were doing was for something good in the long term, why wouldn't they state it publicly?  Why wouldn't they follow the Nuremberg Code in regards to human subject usage or even follow the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in regards to allow me to have my own privacy and space?

Again I know a lot of it can be pushed on me, the usual bullshit that I'm suppose to prove it.  It can be proved, there's technologies to do it, it's just it costs money that I don't have.

The problem is they've opened a can of worms by operating such a system, since they were using this method prior to Bin Laden's attack on an American Airbase.   They could of used it on him and terrorists like him from day one, but instead they fucking ignored that threat and instead abuse people like me.  Then you wonder why I don't just come right out and say it.

[Secular Sanity]

That either didn't help, because you're not wanting to come right out with it, or you are talking about mind control. If the latter, that is no more credibility than alien telepathy. Why would you even think that delusion is dependent on external energy? Asserting that a well-established field of study is completely wrong in favor of an unevidenced conspiracy theory is, in many ways, worse than claiming alien telepathy. At least alien telepathy isn't refuting known fields of study, even if it is at odds with any evidenced explanation.

I'm not sure what you are expecting me to come out with.

I'll put it as simply as possible without skirting around it.  I've been dealing with an external influence for about 18 years.  People like yourself will quite happily jump on the schizophrenia bandwagon, however it's not schizophrenia, in fact it's pretty damn ludicrous that people can project the concept of schizophrenia on people that are abused by such systems.    If it was some mental loop, some repetitive thought process, then there would be a lot more repetition. It's external because on the rare occasion I've actually had it lose signal strength (A couple of thunderstorms and being in the cellar of a shop that had a lot of iron beam work)

The fact remains that I deal with people 24/7.  I have discussions with them (much to the unfortunate situation it causes my neighbours), if it was a manifestation of my own, it would get stale, I certainly wouldn't be able to maintain it for 18 years.  I've tried to talk some sense into them by asking them to come clean, however they want to be career criminals by how they operate.  It kind of reminds me of how the Nazi's used people that they considered lesser than themselves in their experiments and makes me wonder a bit in regards to what sort of Psychopaths our governments allow to run such operations.  As they clearly can't be reasoned with, they aren't doing their operations to forward Science, perhaps just for theft, or using people like myself as a guinea pig to test a system for some corporate whore to use differently at a later date.

The reality is though I can't state who they are because they don't want to come forwards, I can't direct a lawyer to file for an injunction against their misuse because they want to pretend they don't exist and people like yourselves fall for their shit every time.  If what they were doing was for something good in the long term, why wouldn't they state it publicly?  Why wouldn't they follow the Nuremberg Code in regards to human subject usage or even follow the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in regards to allow me to have my own privacy and space?

Again I know a lot of it can be pushed on me, the usual bullshit that I'm suppose to prove it.  It can be proved, there's technologies to do it, it's just it costs money that I don't have.

The problem is they've opened a can of worms by operating such a system, since they were using this method prior to Bin Laden's attack on an American Airbase.   They could of used it on him and terrorists like him from day one, but instead they fucking ignored that threat and instead abuse people like me.  Then you wonder why I don't just come right out and say it.

Well, I must say, I never saw that one coming.  How do we handle this little social dilemma, smart one?  

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[C C]

[...] Again I know a lot of it can be pushed on me, the usual bullshit that I'm suppose to prove it.  It can be proved, there's technologies to do it, it's just it costs money that I don't have.

I have to grant that there could potentially be private / personal evidence for something that would be difficult or futile to convert into or meet a public standard for evidence (shortcomings which might include immense costs for corroborating _X_).

Common "qualia" (or phenomenal showings and feelings in general) would be doomed to a personal evidence slot if it wasn't for the majority of humans claiming to have experiences, and their verbal reports having a measure of good agreement. So once something becomes inter-subjectively available to others (a substitute for objective), apparently the stigma or inadequacy of what was beforehand only one's private conviction or criterion for evidence could possibly be mitigated or lifted after all.

Some of the above may sound like I'm just referring to introspective events, but I'm including extrospective circumstances too which (for one reason or another) would be near impossible for a larger community to receive as valid unless they "were there" or more directly involved.

Vaguely sort of like what solipsism concerns (if it was the case) only being applicable / possible for an individual rather than a group or society... There may be a broader category useful for just that: For subsuming what can only be warranted for the individual (with the understanding that legit hallucinations wouldn't qualify). Again, though, it entails recognizing the futility of trying to get the public dimension of other people or their institutional authorities to accept a particular instance of such. The allowance of that general concept / category (for classifying particular instances under) would be as far as it could go for the cautious members of the collective.

[Syne]

That either didn't help, because you're not wanting to come right out with it, or you are talking about mind control. If the latter, that is no more credibility than alien telepathy. Why would you even think that delusion is dependent on external energy? Asserting that a well-established field of study is completely wrong in favor of an unevidenced conspiracy theory is, in many ways, worse than claiming alien telepathy. At least alien telepathy isn't refuting known fields of study, even if it is at odds with any evidenced explanation.

I'm not sure what you are expecting me to come out with.

I'll put it as simply as possible without skirting around it.  I've been dealing with an external influence for about 18 years.  People like yourself will quite happily jump on the schizophrenia bandwagon, however it's not schizophrenia, in fact it's pretty damn ludicrous that people can project the concept of schizophrenia on people that are abused by such systems.    If it was some mental loop, some repetitive thought process, then there would be a lot more repetition. It's external because on the rare occasion I've actually had it lose signal strength (A couple of thunderstorms and being in the cellar of a shop that had a lot of iron beam work)

The fact remains that I deal with people 24/7.  I have discussions with them (much to the unfortunate situation it causes my neighbours), if it was a manifestation of my own, it would get stale, I certainly wouldn't be able to maintain it for 18 years.  I've tried to talk some sense into them by asking them to come clean, however they want to be career criminals by how they operate.  It kind of reminds me of how the Nazi's used people that they considered lesser than themselves in their experiments and makes me wonder a bit in regards to what sort of Psychopaths our governments allow to run such operations.  As they clearly can't be reasoned with, they aren't doing their operations to forward Science, perhaps just for theft, or using people like myself as a guinea pig to test a system for some corporate whore to use differently at a later date.

The reality is though I can't state who they are because they don't want to come forwards, I can't direct a lawyer to file for an injunction against their misuse because they want to pretend they don't exist and people like yourselves fall for their shit every time.  If what they were doing was for something good in the long term, why wouldn't they state it publicly?  Why wouldn't they follow the Nuremberg Code in regards to human subject usage or even follow the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in regards to allow me to have my own privacy and space?

Again I know a lot of it can be pushed on me, the usual bullshit that I'm suppose to prove it.  It can be proved, there's technologies to do it, it's just it costs money that I don't have.

The problem is they've opened a can of worms by operating such a system, since they were using this method prior to Bin Laden's attack on an American Airbase.   They could of used it on him and terrorists like him from day one, but instead they fucking ignored that threat and instead abuse people like me.  Then you wonder why I don't just come right out and say it.

So it is some form of telepathy, assumed to be technology based. Sorry, but as much as I'd like to extend it to you, authority as admin here doesn't grant credibility...only facts do. I understand part of the motivation for this forum may be as an outlet for these experiences, and as long as that doesn't have a chilling effect on others expressing their honest credulity, I have no problem with whatever your motives. If my credulity (which you know is shared by most people) has repercussions, I'll know this isn't the place for me anyway.

Sounds to me like delusions of both persecution and control. If a Faraday cage (or other interference) completely abates it, that is not sufficient reason to rule our delusion, since some 1/3 of such delusions are consistent between episodes and can be that detailed. I assume from your attitude toward schizophrenic diagnosis that you haven't seriously attempted any standard treatment? If nothing else, maybe a change in brain chemistry could disrupt signals? That would be the easiest and cheapest first test to rule out possible causes. Because even if your double-blind Faraday cage study was successful, you'd still have to rule out schizophrenia before the results could be taken seriously. What you might do is fashion a Faraday cage helmet (I have some ideas on construction if needed) and take an online schizophrenia assessment with and without the helmet. If you're right, they shouldn't indicate you are schizophrenic with the helmet interfering with signals, but should without the helmet. Might have to wear the helmet for a couple of days so that you have at least some prolonged experience to answer from. But make sure to take different assessments for each run, since repetition could effect results. Here's two:
http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/schizophrenia.htm
http://counsellingresource.com/quizzes/m...enia-test/

It may also be wise to have a brain scan for possible tumors.

Oh, and if these people can hear your thoughts, please tell them to look me up. I'd make a excellent guinea pig.

[Secular Sanity]

Whaaat? Are we just going to minimize the fact that the emperor has no helmet?

That doesn’t really work for me.

WTF, Stryder? Explain it to me.

[stryder]

I can come across brash on the subject, but that's understandable after all at least 18 years of it is going to have it toll.

The problem is I don't have the money or the lab to provide proof, it doesn't mean however that proof doesn't exist.  You just have to look at the technological development in BCI's (Brain Computer Interfaces) to understand that such methods can exist, however for the most part they are in their infancy and their funding is limited compared to that of a countries blank cheque for black projects.

While I know one argument that usually get's pushed round on this subject is the "Wavelength is wrong", there is ways around it using longer wavelengths and spin to interact with matter at higher frequencies.  (The sort of range used is actually just outside of the visible spectrum, in fact I know its' somewhere in the 2.2-2.8Ghz range which incidentally is the same frequency ranges used for the mobile phone networks)

History had such a project as the CIA's "Acoustic Kitty" project to spy on the Kremlin during the 1960's.  The difference being that microchip implants were used to attempt it.

Technology has progressed however the method used requires a "Biological Filter" to act as an embodiment for frequencies to converge, then a method of "Diffraction" is then used to identify how the signals that were sent out are absorbed, reflected or diffracted through the filter.  This means the system in current usage requires to be on 24/7, it's reverberates the bones at a low level so as to "Ping" them which can then be used as a biometric tracker.  The reason for doing this is that should the system lose connectivity for a duration (passing through a deep tunnel, an electrical storm etc) the system can then pick up on the other side if still within vicinity.

This method negates any need for tracking devices or microchips to be present.  Unfortunately it was even in use when I had to visit the American Embassy which I would of expressed directly to them however since people think this is all tinfoil hat related stuff, they would of likely taken in the wrong way.

This methodology only requires a person to be in the range of mobile networks to be exploited in this sense.  I know it's directly related to mobiles not just due to the frequency range but due to a point in time when I visited a location that had poor mobile reception because towers hadn't been installed.  While in the basin of a valley, the signal was near enough absent.  Visiting the same place at a later date after the installation of cell towers had it coming in at exactly the same level.

The system is quite capable of projecting audible communication, I do query as to whether Artificial Intelligence has been used to some point to supplement my own internal monologue so they have something to base conversations of or from.  the problem with this however is it leaves such a monologue to be manipulated by them, and at times I have caught it out trying to say things that don't fit with how I think or feel.  An AI similar to the speed of the Janken (Rock, Paper, Scissors) robot could identify chances in hormones and stressors to react to changing a monologue to suit a person, especially if conducted over time.  (Like I've said, 18+ years) This would suggest State orientated since it would requires a super-computer. (It incidentally means that I'm actually Cyborg to an extent)

My point is that I've wanted off for a long time, it's not like I'm some criminal mastermind or a terrorist, I've just been manipulated to keep from having a family, being educated or working as the problems in how this system/operation has been conducted conflicts with those points at multiple levels.  (There is a number of Human Rights violations due to those points alone)  That's why it comes across as very eugenically orientated.

[Syne]

So...no microchip, and I assume no intention of a brain scan to rule out tumors/lesions. A Faraday cage helmet could not only disrupt a signal but potentially disrupt tracking (or a Faraday cage could be built in a rental truck and driven out of range). But then a negative outcome would leave you with nothing else but to face the delusion...so that's probably out too. No indication that standard diagnosis or treatment was even attempted. Internal monologue is indistinguishable from your own, other than perhaps by content (which is what John Nash said).

Requires technology and even AI not in existence, and you're a cyborg. Science fiction incorporated into delusion is not new or surprising. If you really want off, you'd take the minimal steps to rule out possible causes (or at least temporary relief)...but delusions are actually self-preserving, with their own kind of survival instinct.

So what happened in your life about 18 years ago? Did someone die or leave you? Any injury?

[Secular Sanity]

Hmm…well, this is going to make it a tad bit harder for me to trust you because it makes you unpredictable.  Predictability and trust go hand in hand.  

Syne is right, though.  I’m sorry, Stryder. It has to be extremely stressful. I can't even imagine how it must feel. It may have impaired your ability to work, and have a family, but you still have contact with us.    

Is the dialogue persecutory or supportive? What’s the worst aspect of hearing it? If you’re capable of having discussions with them then that should give you a little more control over them, right?  

The system is quite capable of projecting audible communication, I do query as to whether Artificial Intelligence has been used to some point to supplement my own internal monologue so they have something to base conversations of or from.  the problem with this however is it leaves such a monologue to be manipulated by them, and at times I have caught it out trying to say things that don't fit with how I think or feel. 

It isn’t a supplement.  It is your internal monologue.  What can we do to help?

Talking to us about it won’t make it stop.  You’d need medication for that, but it may help you deal with the stress that it causes.  Why don’t you start a thread in the respected member’s area?  You can title it "Janken".