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What science can learn from religion?

#1
C C Offline
https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tec...n-religion

EXCERPTS: Many historians now agree that the notion that science and religion must be in conflict was a Western invention of the 19th century, and yet this idea still distorts popular understanding of scientific history. [...] religious belief persists in the group of people you might think would be most resistant to it – scientists themselves. Based on international surveys, they report that not only is religious belief surprisingly common in this group, but religion and science overlap in scientific work, and even atheist scientists may see the pursuit of science as having a spiritual dimension.

[...] Religion shapes how scientists approach science. But as knowledge accumulates, science can’t help but encroach on religious territory, if only because the two ask some of the same questions. Where do we come from? Where are we going? What’s the nature of the universe and are we special in it?

In 2020 many astronomers consider it unlikely that rational, intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, though they do think that relatively simple, microbial extraterrestrial life will be discovered before long. In light of that, the Brazilian-born theoretical physicist Marcelo Gleiser argues that it is time to move beyond the idea that we are merely average residents of the Milky Way. Gleiser, a self-declared agnostic, said in an interview in 2019 that we must accept that we have a moral duty to preserve this exceptional planet because “we understand how rare this whole game is and that for all practical purposes we are alone”.

Some see this increasingly explicit tendency of scientists to place humans back at the centre of the universe – from where Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo ousted them – as a symptom of Western science’s terminal malaise. They dismiss it as “neo-geocentrism” and worry that it means scientists are running out of ideas. Yet for others, making sense of our age of global crises requires a return to the old fluidity, in which science and religion are free to inspire each other.

Many environmental and social movements have emerged in recent years, in response to fears of climate change-fuelled civilisational collapse. [...] the author and former academic Pablo Servigne, has spoken about how the prospect of calamity has forced humans to consider their place in the world. What is our relationship to the rest of nature, or to the future of this planet? “Science offers no solutions to these questions,” he told an interviewer earlier this year. For Servigne, a collective spiritual reflection is called for: “If we satisfy ourselves with private beliefs, little spiritual hummingbirds flitting here and there, we will not achieve anything.”

Like Greta Thunberg, who has been compared to Joan of Arc, Servigne has been described as a guru with an evangelical message – something that is always suspicious to scientists. But perhaps a mature, confident scientific community should recognise that people ask questions for many reasons, none of them untainted by ideology, and that this is how we muddle towards knowledge. After all, argues the German neuroscientist and agnostic Wolf Singer, there is so much more to know.

[...] Singer sees no objection to hearing the same question framed differently – as long as the scientific method is respected in answering it – and has never shied away from dialogue with religion. A member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences since 1992, he remarked on what he considers the academy’s failures – its inability to change the Church’s position on birth control, for example – but also its successes. After the Dutch-born chemist and Nobel laureate Paul Crutzen described the dire after-effects of nuclear war at an academy meeting in the early 1980s, the Vatican and its embassies helped introduce the concept of a nuclear winter to global governments, influencing the disarmament debate. And Pope Francis’s 2015 encyclical, Laudato Si’, in which he adopted the scientific consensus on climate change, was heavily influenced by the academy’s deliberations.

Singer has debated free will and consciousness with Buddhist monks, and even recruited them to his experiments [...] This research is an example of another way in which the two realms have inspired each other. ... At the Rush Alzheimer’s Disease Center in Chicago, the Religious Orders Study is approaching its fourth decade. This project tracks the physical and cognitive capacity of more than a thousand ageing nuns, priests and monks across the US, on the grounds that, belonging to religious communities, they tend to stay in one place and to lead similar lifestyles. The study’s architects claim that it has shed light on the neurobiological pathways that both lead to and protect against dementia... (MORE - details)
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#2
Magical Realist Offline
Science could learn from religion how to tell a good story. Religion has always been good at telling us stories, whether they are true or not. The love of a good story is in the end stronger than a list of facts. There are many ways to teach science thru story-telling---of humanizing science and making it more relevant to our experience. The Fox TV series "Cosmos: Possible Worlds" is a good example of how that is done.
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#3
Zinjanthropos Offline
We may be an anomaly as far as surface intelligent life goes. How old is the universe? 18 bn yrs? How old can it get and still produce life? Do we have any idea at what point in time the universe is? Is it the first day, hour, minute? We're technologically savvy but intelligence wise we could be outnumbered millions to one by creatures that never got out of the water. Too early for me to say humanity is a rare bird.

What can religion teach science? How about the grip religion has on humanity being so strong that it can actually hinder scientific development?
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#4
Leigha Offline
Maybe science can learn that it's not in competition with religion. It doesn't need to be, anyway. Science explains how, and religion offers a why. The two don't have to cancel each other out. There may be some misconceptions about how religion and/or spirituality applies to most people's everyday lives, and that could be why it's difficult to see the two as complementary to each other.
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#5
Zinjanthropos Offline
Maybe religion can learn that science can’t prove God exists, and should they manage that then any other belief attributed to God is just more unproven beliefs, thus any references to anything divine in religious text should come with a disclaimer indicating scripture is in no way factual. It in no way means a God exists. If the written word can fool scientists, it can fool anybody unless they’re being funded by some faith based organization. Not going to bite the hand that feeds you nor turn down any research money on principle.
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#6
Leigha Offline
There are religious scientists out there, but they may accept that there are certain incompatible ideas between science and faith based beliefs, yet those “differences” don’t affect their understanding of science or their devotion to God.

Many people are good at compartmentalizing, too. Not just with science and religion.
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#7
Syne Offline
(Sep 17, 2021 02:42 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Maybe religion can learn that science can’t prove God exists, and should they manage that then any other belief attributed to God is just more unproven beliefs, thus any references to anything divine in religious text should come with a disclaimer indicating scripture is in no way factual. It in no way means a God exists.  If the written word can fool scientists, it can fool anybody unless they’re being funded by some faith based organization. Not going to bite the hand that feeds you nor turn down any research money on principle.

Doesn't follow, even by simple logic. There are plenty of non-divine things science cannot prove. That doesn't mean they are not factual. If you're going to try using science against religion, you might want to understand science first. Otherwise, you're only arguing out of ignorance.
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#8
Zinjanthropos Offline
Yes, believing and forming a religious community and govt in some cases is NOT ignorant of the facts. I guess if there are no facts then it’s not a fact. Excuse my ignorance, but if one side can argue without then so can the other when there are none. JMO
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#9
Syne Offline
(Sep 17, 2021 07:11 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Yes, believing and forming a religious community and govt in some cases is NOT ignorant of the facts. I guess if there are no facts then it’s not a fact. Excuse my ignorance, but if one side can argue without then so can the other when there are none. JMO

Not every factual thing can be proven scientifically. Like whatever love and loyalty you may have for your family or friends. Others can only take your word, and believe in your honesty, to accept that you care for others. Pretending only the scientifically proven is factual is ignorant. Now, if you want to say that your love and loyalty do not, in fact, exist, that's your problem.
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