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Anesthesia's effect on consciousness solved + New gut-brain link

#1
C C Offline
Anesthesia's effect on consciousness solved, settling century-old scientific debate
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/...052920.php

INTRO: Surgery would be inconceivable without general anesthesia, so it may come as a surprise that despite its 175-year history of medical use, doctors and scientists have been unable to explain how anesthetics temporarily render patients unconscious.

A new study from Scripps Research published Thursday evening in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences (PNAS) solves this longstanding medical mystery. Using modern nanoscale microscopic techniques, plus clever experiments in living cells and fruit flies, the scientists show how clusters of lipids in the cell membrane serve as a missing go-between in a two-part mechanism. Temporary exposure to anesthesia causes the lipid clusters to move from an ordered state, to a disordered one, and then back again, leading to a multitude of subsequent effects that ultimately cause changes in consciousness.

The discovery by chemist Richard Lerner, MD, and molecular biologist Scott Hansen, PhD, settles a century-old scientific debate, one that still simmers today: Do anesthetics act directly on cell-membrane gates called ion channels, or do they somehow act on the membrane to signal cell changes in a new and unexpected way? It has taken nearly five years of experiments, calls, debates and challenges to arrive at the conclusion that it's a two-step process that begins in the membrane, the duo say. The anesthetics perturb ordered lipid clusters within the cell membrane known as "lipid rafts" to initiate the signal.

"We think there is little doubt that this novel pathway is being used for other brain functions beyond consciousness, enabling us to now chip away at additional mysteries of the brain," Lerner says... (MORE)



New gut-brain link: how gut mucus could help treat brain disorders
https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/media-relea...rain-mucus

RELEASE: Mucus is the first line of defence against bad bacteria in our gut. But could it also be part of our defence against diseases of the brain? Bacterial imbalance in the gut is linked with Alzheimer’s disease, autism and other brain disorders, yet the exact causes are unclear. Now a new research review of 113 neurological, gut and microbiology studies led by RMIT University suggests a common thread – changes in gut mucus.

Senior author Associate Professor Elisa Hill-Yardin said these changes could be contributing to bacterial imbalance and exacerbating the core symptoms of neurological diseases. “Mucus is a critical protective layer that helps balance good and bad bacteria in your gut but you need just the right amount - not too little and not too much,” Hill-Yardin said.

“Researchers have previously shown that changes to intestinal mucus affect the balance of bacteria in the gut but until now, no-one has made the connection between gut mucus and the brain. Our review reveals that people with autism, Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s and Multiple Sclerosis have different types of bacteria in their gut mucus compared with healthy people, and different amounts of good and bad bacteria. It’s a new gut-brain connection that opens up fresh avenues for scientists to explore, as we search for ways to better treat disorders of the brain by targeting our ‘second brain’ – the gut.”

Gut mucus is different depending on where it’s found in the gastrointestinal tract - in the small intestine it’s more porous so nutrients from food can be easily absorbed, while in the colon, the mucus is thick and should be impenetrable to bacteria. The mucus is full of peptides that kill bacteria, especially in the small intestine, but it can also act as an energy source, feeding some of the bacteria that live inside it.

Scientists are learning that brain disorders can affect neurons in the gut. For example, RMIT researchers have shown that neurons in both the brain and the gut nervous systems are affected in autism. The new review suggests that reduced gut mucus protection may make patients with neurological diseases more susceptible to gastrointestinal problems.

Hill-Yardin said severe gut dysfunction could exacerbate the symptoms of brain disorders, significantly affecting quality of life for patients and their families. “If we can understand the role that gut mucus plays in brain disease, we can try to develop treatments that harness this precise part of the gut-brain axis,” she said. “Our work shows that microbial engineering, and tweaking the gut mucus to boost good bacteria, have potential as therapeutic options for neurological disorders.”

Hill-Yardin, an ARC Future Fellow and Vice-Chancellor’s Senior Research Fellow at RMIT, led the review with collaborators from University of Melbourne and La Trobe University.
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#2
Zinjanthropos Offline
I rarely use the Search feature supplied here. However when I stumbled upon a TED Talk video re consciousness I thought I'd check it out, finding this thread. The vid starts with a reference to anaesthesia but it was made in 2017. In the OP here there's a link to what scientists have found to how anaesthetics work, at least that's what it appears to me. This vid was made 3 years later (approx).

I don't really know much about the consciousness topic so I was wondering: Would the TED Talk be different if the speaker (Anil Seth) had this recent information? 

The 2017 vid (17 mins) is excellent in my estimation plus it's closed captioned. May require multi-tasking (i.e. listening while reading) which in itself might relate to the consciousness topic. Undecided  

If a video makes one think then that's what appeals to me.
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#3
C C Offline
(Oct 18, 2020 05:02 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Would the TED Talk be different if the speaker (Anil Seth) had this recent information? 


Wow, a video with a transcript for once -- that speeds things up considerably.

Browser search of the text indicates anesthesia is only mentioned in the first paragraph that refers to it as a mystery. Seth probably still would have said that due to general acceptance of the new research still requiring years, perhaps, even if replicated (there have been other proposed explanations of anesthetic effects in the past).

"Controlled hallucination" concerns and requires the power of materialization itself, so it doesn't clarify how such arises from stuff that lacks materialization (matter that is normally invisible or blank). "Controlled hallucination" just highlights what we already knew -- that the outer environment we experience is a representation or sort of simulation in the skull, residing with our thoughts.

He hits the nail more on the head when he says: "Without it [consciousness] there's no world, there's no self, there's nothing at all."

Because that addresses experience as materialization head-on rather than side-stepping it with talk about qualia, "what it feels like", etc. Which simply refer to a way of discriminating and classifying the content of manifestations. Non-consciousness is "not even nothingness" and thus its opposite (consciousness) is therefore the "presence of anything" in a visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, etc mode.

He says: "Consciousness and intelligence are very different things. You don't have to be smart to suffer, but you probably do have to be alive."

I might only agree with that if "consciousness" purely refers to "manifestation" and "intelligence" refers to much more than basic cognitive properties. Like the basic ability to verify or acknowledge that "something is there" and then identify it with memory, even if only as a vague object or feeling; and react to it. Even the tiniest brained insect has those elemental cognitive capacities (minus the deeper understandings of people applied to their experiences or phenomenal exhibitions).

Materializations or manifestations verify themselves via different modes of them appearing in association with each other in a kind of complex loop knot. Like the "audible" thought in one's head of "There's a dog barking" appearing in conjunction with the image and sound of such. And in turn a more subliminal thought spurred by that to verify it, that's not as directly obvious. Due to limited language or communication signals, non-human animals arguably have fewer nested levels of "proof" and the epistemological circularity is less wide.

There's of course a "zombie" mechanistic way that a brain confirms that information has been received and processed, too. But it's restricted to verification "in the dark" and thus is purely an assertion of reasoning that the latter has inferred from speculation and experimentation. Such invisible cognitive activity can never confirm itself empirically in a brain unless a phenomenal stratum emerges that can directly or indirectly manifest it (represent it as experiences). The universe can't even empirically confirm its existence without non-zombie consciousness eventually evolving. (Bottom line is that "not even nothingness" or "everything is happening invisibly" is just flat-out impotent in that respect.)
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#4
Zinjanthropos Offline
What was Seth referring to at the end when he said don’t be afraid of losing consciousness, being anaesthetized or dying? Seemed like an odd way to end the talk.
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#5
C C Offline
(Oct 18, 2020 07:41 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: What was Seth referring to at the end when he said don’t be afraid of losing consciousness, being anaesthetized or dying? Seemed like an odd way to end the talk.

"And ... when the end of consciousness comes, there's nothing to be afraid of. Nothing at all."

In addition to his having returned from "nothing at all" himself via having been under anesthesia before, he may be harking back to what he said earlier: "Without it [consciousness] there's no world, there's no self, there's nothing at all."

IOW, even fear and pain/suffering would be absent, along with every other concern, worry and threat. Beyond the survival reflexes, why we value life to begin with is because we natively have all these sub-routine thoughts constantly bombarding us with reasons for maintaining that attitude. (Which includes duty to responsibilities and obligations, not just personal goals, interests, addictions and habits we've acquired that we want to continue satisfying.)

Antinatalists keep on going once they are born, despite believing that the amount of psychological and physical pain exceeds any rewards of being alive. That's how powerful the biological apparatus is which filters the world with rose-colored glasses and attaches ego-expanding pride and pleasure to facing up to suffering and overcoming challenges. But all expiring when consciousness ends.

Life's self-promoting, built-in imitation of Trump that "I'm great, I'm fantastic, you need to keep me around as long as possible" even corrupts the idea of death or the absence of everything with the fear that one will still be aware in some way. Surrounded by eternal boring emptiness and feeling the perpetual misery of that condition. Jesse Bering once conducted a survey which discovered that many atheists viewed oblivion as an acknowledgement of being embedded in nothingness, despite conflictingly believing in no afterlife or lingering cognition.

Goes back to what I've said before that we're all implicit panpsychists at a non-verbal level. Subconsciously none of us conceive a non-mental world that exists without "showing itself" as either useful or as a valid manner of be-ing. Such seems like a cousin of the similarly invisible supernatural, only on a higher footing because its existence at least receives manifestation in the representations of consciousness and the technical descriptions of science.
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#6
Zinjanthropos Offline
Here’s a biological definition of life:

Quote:All living organisms share several key characteristics or functions: order, sensitivity or response to the environment, reproduction, growth and development, regulation, homeostasis, and energy processing. When viewed together, these characteristics serve to define life.


Do we need to include consciousness? Obviously I don’t need to be conscious to be alive.
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#7
C C Offline
(Oct 19, 2020 03:19 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Here’s a biological definition of life:

Quote:All living organisms share several key characteristics or functions: order, sensitivity or response to the environment, reproduction, growth and development, regulation, homeostasis, and energy processing. When viewed together, these characteristics serve to define life.

Do we need to include consciousness? Obviously I don’t need to be conscious to be alive.


Macroscopic plant-life needs neither purely mechanistic cognition nor phenomenal consciousness to survive. Mobile robots don't even require the latter to navigate about and subsist in their environment (only the mechanistic, "no manifestations" aspect of data processing).

The philosophical zombie argument is derived from such. However, I don't believe there's any non-preposterous explanation that can explain how a "natural" zombie version of humans (and potentially certain animals we relate to) could so perfectly, consistently, constantly, and universally pretend that they were having experiences when they really weren't. Not with evolution having been the haphazard origin of such, in contrast to humans deliberately designing robots to pretend (due to engineers not knowing what the correlates of that kind of consciousness would be in an electronic substrate).

The upshot of which is that the materialized content of our sensations is therefore not epiphenomenal or causally impotent -- it does have a return effect on neural operations in order for the body to privately acknowledge them and publicly report them. But since experience is purely a brute add-on to science (it doesn't fall out of the officially recognized properties of matter), then there would be an "influence" at work in the brain that is not accounted for. Which is no surprise, since any pretentious posturing of science having mapped and cataloged all specific causes and refined relationships in either an organism or the universe at large is just that: ludicrously bogus, impossible omniscience (the most extreme scientism).
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#8
Zinjanthropos Offline
I’m probably the only guy in NA that hasn’t seen a zombie movie.

Seems I can be alive without consciousness but I can’t be conscious without being alive. Is whatever it takes to form a universe ultimately responsible for consciousness? No wonder it’s so goddam hard to create life in a lab, first I need a universe. I have the feeling life is more mysterious than a unified theory. 

I’m going to guess that life was created by a universe without consciousness. I can be alive without consciousness too, but I’m not capable of creating anything at that point. I can see where the panpsychists get their ideas from. They can’t see how something without consciousness can deliver. A major stumbling block for folks.

It’s a cycle then....unconsciousness to consciousness to unconsciousness, even though death isn’t necessary to return to unconsciousness as in under anaesthetic, the closest we can get to oblivion without dying. Oblivion seems like the wrong word, as if we have to be aware to recognize it. Even void or nothing intimates we have some understanding. Not being aware(no consciousness) seems like the exact feeling we get when trying to think of what was before something got here. Smile
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