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New Brexit deal agreed, says Boris Johnson

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#2
stryder Online
Saturday it was undermined by a parliamentary vote. 

Parliaments a sham at the moment with different parties stonewalling each other with the pretence of gaining political power from it.  To be honest though parliamentarians are "slitting their own throats" by literally not coming up with a working plan that they can all agree on, instead they are seen as weak by the rest of the world, they've caused the public to tire of the affair and literally make a mockery out of the job they are suppose to do which is literally push forwards what best for the country (not themselves). 

If anything it actually proves that parliamentarians should go back to school as they obviously aren't qualified enough for the job.  I mean to become a doctor, or a lawyer requires years of study but to be a parliamentarian requires you to be rich enough to pay an entry fee and obnoxious enough that people give you enough time to voice an opinion.  Ideally there should be a Degree in Politics that is required before they can even intern.

As for a Brexit plan...  I came up with something back in January that I mentioned here, here's a brief rundown perhaps you can tell me what you think:


Rough Brexit plan

One of the main problems with Britain being in Europe was the concern that various decisions made by Europe and voted on by countries not in a geographic proximity could lead to the British Government being undermined, the other point was that having 28 countries in the EU, as you can guess that is a lot of dynamics and in the long run a nightmare when dealing with legislation and general bureauracy.

A solution to this part of the problem is to actually "sub-divide" Europe into geographically linked subdivisions or approximately 5 countries (no more than 8).  Those subdivisions would make up the EU, however the countries themselves would not be directly in the EU, instead they are in that subdivision.  The countries in that subdivision could then make decisions that best suits themselves internally within that subdivision, while also having the capacity to trade in the EU by trading with other subdivisions etc.  (This incidentally would allow Britain to leave the EU, while remaining by proxy through the use of a subdivision.)

The subdivisions would have to make up their own EU representative team from the countries within it.  This would lessen the bureaucracy when decisions are made at Brussels, potentially speeding up the process and reducing carbon emissions (less MEP's being sent to Brussels)

Countries that makeup the subdivisions would support the countries within that subdivision (A bit like a Guarantor).  If for instance one was having financial troubles and could no longer maintain an obligation to a contractual agreement, the other countries in their sub-division could in theory take up the slack since such deals in the EU would be done at the Divisional level.  It also means that should a country want to leave the subdivision or join a subdivision it would be possible as their "Deals" could be maintained by those countries that made up that subdivision.  (This means that there wouldn't have to be a No Deal, and a New Deal wouldn't have to be fully made as the older deals could just migrate to a subdivision system)

In the case of Britain, for this to have worked as a plan, it would of required a strong PM to express how such changes to the EU isn't just a last ditched attempt to deal with the chaos caused by the Brexit, but is actually a way to forwards the EU to be a more robust bureaucratic system that will not be corrupted by the nightmare caused by the shear number of countries currently involved in decision making.  (After all those countries will only really be looking at the EU for major joint considerations like the Market, Defence, Sciences etc)

The ideal subdivision that Britain could become apart of would obviously require Ireland as one of the countries, as this would remove any concerns of a border problem.  (The idea is that subdivisions have open borders between the countries that make them up, the border to a neighbouring subdivision is slightly tighter, as while they are still European one of the concerns was how open migration was allowing a lot of loopholes in people trafficking.  Subdivisions might have a European Tax when making trades between subdivisions, however making trades between countries in the same subdivision should be a lesser subdivision tax which strengthens the countries to work together in their subdivisions.)

Other countries in that subdivision would likely be geographically tied (or in close proximity) so that would mean countries like France, Spain and Portugal.

Subdivisions would be open bordered within the subdivision, with a border check at external borders of the subdivision itself.  While this does mean that open system would be revamped, it still allows for some of the perks without all the weaknesses to be present.

The subdivisions would have a certain amount of autonomy from the EU, for instance if they want to have their own currencies they can.  It's on the deals that are done through the subdivisions themselves that would be done in Euro's.  This allows countries to have their identities and their independence while not undermining what the nature of the EU was suppose to be about.



The brief idea was to create a compromise that allowed a Deal/No Deal/Same Deal, while Leaving and Remaining (in proxy), that covers having open borders to suit the Irish needs, while having tighter borders to deal with migration concerns and also creates an easier method for joining/leaving the subdivisions that would make up the EU (rather than having the mess that Brexit is). Ideally if all parties saw eye to eye, it would remove the division that has set in by not capitulating to one side or other.
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#3
C C Offline
(Oct 20, 2019 02:37 PM)stryder Wrote: As for a Brexit plan...  I came up with something back in January that I mentioned here, here's a brief rundown perhaps you can tell me what you think...


Pointing in the right direction if fears of an EU centralized body dictating from afar is the worry. That kind of management and its universal cure-all, impractical disregard of contingent, local affairs was once attributed to the Soviet Union -- resulting in disasters like loss of the Aral Sea.

An obvious concern about the approach -- or a fear mongering orientation (thus exaggerated, if the latter) -- would be that subdivisions with geographic commonality would even more encourage gradual evolution toward centralized government within those divisions themselves. Strongly overriding local sovereignty eventually. Although the differences in language and culture would surely obstruct such from going beyond a federation-ish conception of a single, loose "country".

When similar entities like Yugoslavia fell apart, the former nation-states seemed to have no problem reclaiming and returning to their former identities (with warring results). But it's not a good comparison since Yugoslavia was only briefly part of a so-called Eastern Bloc under Soviet scrutiny (crudely corresponding to a darkside version of EU) -- in 1948 it distanced itself from Stalin. Still, at least a few decades of being integrated under a common banner didn't result in each population nationality forgetting old traditions and who they were.
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#4
Syne Offline
Considering the similarity in size, the EU should have patterned itself after the US. EU countries would have the autonomy of US states, where they can individually decide whether to cooperate with the centralized government or not. I can't even imagine completely different countries surrendering more autonomy to a centralized and unelected body than US states do.
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#5
billvon Offline
(Oct 20, 2019 11:49 PM)Syne Wrote: Considering the similarity in size, the EU should have patterned itself after the US. EU countries would have the autonomy of US states, where they can individually decide whether to cooperate with the centralized government or not.
'Cept for that thing that happened around 1860.
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#6
Syne Offline
(Oct 22, 2019 10:52 PM)billvon Wrote:
(Oct 20, 2019 11:49 PM)Syne Wrote: Considering the similarity in size, the EU should have patterned itself after the US. EU countries would have the autonomy of US states, where they can individually decide whether to cooperate with the centralized government or not.
'Cept for that thing that happened around 1860.

LOL! You mean the EU, formed in 1993, couldn't manage to avoid something that happened in the 1860s? If you're taking about the US Civil War, you're either daft to think they would repeat that history in the 90s and without slavery, or you think Europeans are morons.
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