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Magical Realist
Aug 29, 2019 04:24 AM
(This post was last modified: Aug 29, 2019 06:04 AM by Magical Realist.)
Quote: As any credible reference will state, there are many causes of mental illness. Among them, trauma, brain damage, etc., none of which the patient can be blamed for.
Just link to some studies showing the 5 disorders listed are caused by trauma and/or brain damage. Shouldn't be hard to do if your claim is valid.
Quote:Or do you think PTSD is genetic too? O_o
No moron. It's in the name. Trauma and stress.
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Syne
Aug 29, 2019 11:28 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 29, 2019 11:33 PM by Syne.)
(Aug 29, 2019 04:24 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Quote: As any credible reference will state, there are many causes of mental illness. Among them, trauma, brain damage, etc., none of which the patient can be blamed for.
Just link to some studies showing the 5 disorders listed are caused by trauma and/or brain damage. Shouldn't be hard to do if your claim is valid. I'm not making a claim; I'm questioning the claims of others. Again, learn to read.
Quote:Quote:Or do you think PTSD is genetic too? O_o
No moron. It's in the name. Trauma and stress.
(See Leigha, et al, MR instigates the name calling. Go ahead, search this thread for any from me before this.)
Okay, dipshit.
Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a prevalent neurobehavioral disorder affecting 5% to 10% of children. Although considered to be a highly familial disorder, ADHD heritability estimates of 60% to 80% highlight the considerable role that environmental factors may still play in disorder susceptibility. Proposed ADHD environmental risk factors include prenatal substance exposures, heavy metal and chemical exposures, nutritional factors, and lifestyle/psychosocial factors.
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3277258/
IOW, if ADHD only affects 5% to 10% of children but is 60% to 80% heritable, something other than genetics has to contribute to the 70% who inherit but are never affected by ADHD. That's a huge gap to just claim "it's all genetic".
This one cites pregnancy/early childhood, socioeconomic, and environmental contaminants as risk factors: https://adhd-institute.com/burden-of-adh...k-factors/ Those seem ample to account for the aforementioned discrepancy.
The role of environmental factors in the development of autism is a crucial area of study. We know that genetics strongly influence the risk for developing autism spectrum disorder (ASD). However, genetics alone do not account for all instances of autism. For good reason, the increasing prevalence of autism has generated great interest in the potential involvement of toxins in our environment. For example, prenatal exposure to the chemicals thalidomide and valproic acid has been linked to increased risk of autism.
- https://www.autismspeaks.org/environment...ors-autism
Again, an unexplained increase in autism cannot be accounted for by genetics alone, because the prevalence of new cases have no heritable history.
While people are genetically predisposed to be at risk of the disorder, not all of these people develop bipolar disorder. This suggests that environmental factors and psychological factors can trigger manic or depressive episodes, although not everyone with the disorder will experience a triggering event.
- https://www.psycom.net/bipolar-disorder-causes
Comorbidity between MD [major depression] and alcoholism in women is substantial and appears to result largely from genetic factors that influence the risk to both disorders, but common environmental risk factors also contribute. However, genetic factors exist that influence the liability to MD without influencing the risk for alcoholism and vice versa. Narrowing the diagnostic criteria for MD or alcoholism increases comorbidity, but for different reasons narrow diagnostic criteria for MD increase the environmental sources of comorbidity while narrow diagnostic criteria for alcoholism increase the genetic sources of comorbidity.
- https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsy...act/496315
Genetic factors are clearly important in the etiology of schizophrenia, but the environment in which an individual's genes find expression is also crucial to the development of the illness. In this review of environmental risk factors for schizophrenia, we consider risks operating prenatally and perinatally, during childhood, and then later in life prior to illness onset. Some of these risk factors have been well documented, for example, early hazards causing fetal growth retardation or hypoxia, and hazards nearer the onset of illness like drug abuse and migration. Others are much less certain. The importance of interaction between genetic and environmental risk is, however, undoubtedly important and there is emerging evidence for this from a range of sources.
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181718/
The running theme here is that heredity has little to do with expression, which is largely due to environment.
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Magical Realist
Aug 29, 2019 11:48 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 29, 2019 11:50 PM by Magical Realist.)
Quote:The running theme here is that heredity has little to do with expression, which is largely due to environment.
The running theme here is alot of speculation but zero studies showing the effect of environment as a cause for these disorders. Heavy metals? Drug abuse by mother? Lifestyle? Where's the studies?
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Syne
Aug 30, 2019 12:00 AM
(Aug 29, 2019 11:48 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Quote:The running theme here is that heredity has little to do with expression, which is largely due to environment.
The running theme here is alot of speculation but zero studies showing the effect of environment as a cause for these disorders. Heavy metals? Drug abuse by mother? Lifestyle? Where's the studies?
Most those I linked are studies, moron. Learn to read. And even if they weren't, there is still a huge discrepancy between heredity and expression that genetics alone obviously cannot account for. And since a disorder cannot be said to "caused" until it is expressed, factors other than genetic are overwhelmingly the triggering causes.
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Magical Realist
Aug 30, 2019 12:09 AM
(This post was last modified: Aug 30, 2019 12:15 AM by Magical Realist.)
(Aug 30, 2019 12:00 AM)Syne Wrote: (Aug 29, 2019 11:48 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Quote:The running theme here is that heredity has little to do with expression, which is largely due to environment.
The running theme here is alot of speculation but zero studies showing the effect of environment as a cause for these disorders. Heavy metals? Drug abuse by mother? Lifestyle? Where's the studies?
Most those I linked are studies, moron. Learn to read. And even if they weren't, there is still a huge discrepancy between heredity and expression that genetics alone obviously cannot account for. And since a disorder cannot be said to "caused" until it is expressed, factors other than genetic are overwhelmingly the triggering causes.
A gene that is turned on or expressed is in fact genetic causation. There are many factors influencing this expression. Environmental isn't the only one. Other genes and gene mutations also cause genes to be expressed at certain times. Read up on genetics some time.
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Syne
Aug 30, 2019 12:18 AM
(Aug 30, 2019 12:09 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: (Aug 30, 2019 12:00 AM)Syne Wrote: Most those I linked are studies, moron. Learn to read. And even if they weren't, there is still a huge discrepancy between heredity and expression that genetics alone obviously cannot account for. And since a disorder cannot be said to "caused" until it is expressed, factors other than genetic are overwhelmingly the triggering causes.
A gene that is turned on or expressed is in fact genetic causation. There are many factors influencing this expression. Environmental isn't the only one. Other genes also cause genes to be expressed at certain times. Read up on genetics some time.
Nope, otherwise the 60-80% inherited would all be expressed.
Who said environmental was the only factor? Not me. You're reading things that ain't there. Again, learn to read, numbnuts.
But go ahead, show us all a study proving other genes causing the expression of the genes for these disorders. No? Just talking out of your ass, huh?
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Magical Realist
Aug 30, 2019 12:28 AM
(This post was last modified: Aug 30, 2019 12:38 AM by Magical Realist.)
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Syne
Aug 30, 2019 12:52 AM
(Aug 30, 2019 12:28 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Quote:But go ahead, show us all a study proving other genes causing the expression of the genes for these disorders.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...ar-origins
https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2018/12/...544806383/
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nationa...51mwg.html
"may suggest" is speculation. Didn't you JUST say this:
(Aug 29, 2019 11:48 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: The running theme here is alot of speculation... Well, that's certainly true of your sources.
The others are again conflating correlation, where things are merely observed together, with causation, where one clearly precedes and definitively leads to the other. They go at it backasswards, by finding changes in the brain of disorder sufferers and then making just-so stories about them. But I wouldn't expect the scientifically illiterate, like yourself, to be able to tell the difference.
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